October Transcript

00001

01 CAMP CROFT RESTORATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING

01 *******************************************************

02 PLACE: SC School for the Deaf and the Blind

03 Robertson Hall

04 DATE: Tuesday, October 12, 1999

05 TIME: 7:10 p.m. to 7:50 p.m.

06 PRESENTATIONS

06 GIVEN BY:

07 Suzanne Cantor-McKinney, Project Manager

08 Zapata Engineering, P.A.

08 1100 Kenilworth Avenue, Suite 104

09 Charlotte, North Carolina 28204

10 Karl Blankinship, Project Manager

10 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

11 Huntsville District

12 BOARD MEMBERS

12 PRESENT: Joseph L. Crissinger

13 Gary Hayes

13 William B. Littlejohn, Jr.

14 W. Brownlee Lowry

14 David Mullinax

15 George D. Mullinax

15 Gerard Perry

16 Robert W. Powell, Jr.

16 Clary H. Smith

17 Stonewall J. Stewart, Jr.

17 Sherry Wheeler

18 Darwin J. Wilson

19 BOARD MEMBERS

19 NOT PRESENT: Ed Y. Hall

20 Conley McIntyre, Sr.

20 Sanford N. Smith

21 James B. Thompson

22 REPORTED BY:

23 Sandy Satterwhite Reporting

23 P.O. Box 742

24 Roebuck, South Carolina 29376

24 (864)574-1455

00002

01 INDEX

02 Welcome by Mr. David Mullinax. . . . . . . . . . . 3

03 Investigations in the Wedgewood Neighborhood . . . 3

04 Status of Activities . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8

05 RAB Membership . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10

06 New Business . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11

07 Closing Remarks. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11

08 Meeting continued. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12

09 Certificate of Reporter . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39

00003

01 BY MR. MULLINAX:

02 I like to welcome you to the October RAB

03 meeting. Mr. Thompson is not here. My name is David

04 Mullinax, and I will be standing in for him tonight.

05 At this time I'd like to turn it over to Suzy

06 McKinney.

07 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

08 Thanks.

09 Good evening and welcome. Thank you all for

10 attending. Again, I am Suzy McKinney with Zapata

11 Engineering, and I wanted to address the first topic

12 on the agenda this evening -- and agendas were

13 available at the front sign-in desk -- to give

14 everyone an update of the status of the investigations

15 in the Wedgewood subdivision.

16 You've perhaps seen the vans that are out there.

17 UXB International is the subcontractor to the Corps of

18 Engineers that's responsible for collecting the

19 geophysical data and conducting the removal actions in

20 that area.

21 So they are out there and have been out there

22 for several weeks now. To date, what I'd like to do

23 is give you a status of where they are with those

24 activities.

25 Land surveying has been completed on 25 of the

00004

01 properties, and this may is hard to see, but you're

02 more than welcome to look at it a little later.

03 We've got Wedgewood Drive and Wedgewood Place

04 and the private properties. There's also a buffer

05 zone that will be evaluated that surrounds those

06 properties that are split between the back ends of the

07 private property and then the golf course.

08 So as it's color coded on here, land surveying

09 is in green, and that is to mark approximate property

10 boundaries. Those are not legal survey boundaries.

11 So if you see corner stakes or hubs, that's not

12 necessarily your actual legal boundary. What that

13 does is it gives the data collection crews points to

14 run their grids to collect the data.

15 So land surveying has been undertaken now for

16 the last several weeks. A few more areas need to be

17 completed. Then what we've started to do and what UXB

18 has started to do is to go in there with a piece of

19 equipment, an EM-61, and several of you probably have

20 now seen that. It's an orange framed cart that is

21 pulled behind an individual, and it just traverses the

22 land and it collects the data of any subsurface

23 metallic anomalies.

24 So the purple areas have been evaluated as far

25 as data collection with this piece of equipment. So

00005

01 we still have several properties remaining. Let me

02 see, the geophysical mapping, the data collection has

03 been completed on 13 properties, and a few acres in

04 that surrounding buffer area have also now been

05 addressed.

06 Zapata Engineering was out in the neighborhood

07 about a week-and-a-half ago. We took pictures of

08 several of the properties. Everyone, really, that had

09 provided right of entries and have provided you

10 photographs. So that in the event there is some

11 damage or concerns about this contractor being on your

12 property, you'll have some photo documentation of

13 that.

14 If there is damage, as you've been told, you

15 will be compensated those shrubberies, whatever, will

16 be replaced, and so you can take your own photos

17 afterwards or you can contact us and we can come out

18 and document that for you. The Corps of Engineers

19 also has a set of photographs for their records.

20 Updated schedules are provided to the neighbors

21 on a -- we try to get out there every week. We put

22 updated schedules in mailboxes today, actually. UXB

23 anticipates collecting data on about eight more

24 properties through the remainder of their week. Their

25 schedule will be starting Monday. They will be out

00006

01 there from approximately 8:00, not before 8:00 in the

02 morning, until 5:30 p.m., Monday through Thursday,

03 four days, and Friday will be used potentially as a

04 makeup day if they have bad weather, rain or have any

05 other problems. So you should not really see them out

06 in the neighborhood on Friday. You will see them this

07 week because yesterday was a federal holiday and they

08 did not work.

09 As far as aiding in geophysical data collection,

10 there are some properties that have some extensive

11 brush, and they will go in there and clear some of

12 that brush; and some of the properties that have been

13 identified, the property owners have the opportunity

14 to be out there during brush clearing or beforehand to

15 let them know, "Don't touch this shrub," or to just be

16 familiar with what they're doing. They will not be

17 brush clearing in landscaped areas. It would be more

18 of the natural areas and the wooded areas on the

19 property and that will ease in data collection.

20 Geophysical mapping is anticipated to be

21 completed by the end of October, give or take a few

22 days; and then, as it stands, the data that has been

23 collected will be evaluated for approximately three to

24 four weeks for the determinations on then where they

25 need to return to actually begin intrusive

00007

01 investigations.

02 And for the intrusive investigations, as we

03 talked when we met with residents of that area in

04 August, that's when we will potentially be closing the

05 roads for periods of time and have to have individuals

06 away from their property or adjacent properties when

07 digging is being accomplished.

08 We will coordinate all that as early as possible

09 with everyone. We will also be coordinating with the

10 mail service, the garbage service, newspaper delivery

11 to ensure that everyone is safe; and, again, that's

12 the primary goal is safety of their personnel and,

13 more importantly, of the residents of the

14 neighborhood.

15 Updated project information can be obtained

16 directly from UXB's field office. We are there

17 periodically. They have a field office at 800 Dairy

18 Ridge Road, and there's usually an individual in

19 there.

20 There is a -- let me borrow this real quickly.

21 On the back of this brochure that is available there

22 is a website, and we will keep updated project

23 information and schedules available on the website if

24 you would want to visit that.

25 And, I believe, that is all I have as far as an

00008

01 update on where we are in the Wedgewood neighborhood.

02 There are some areas outside of Wedgewood that are

03 also beginning to be investigated by the Corps and

04 UXB. And just to give you some familiarity with where

05 those locations are in the event that you see UXB or

06 their vans, we'll let Karl Blankinship from Huntsville

07 Corps of Engineers briefly describe those outlying

08 areas.

09 BY MR. BLANKINSHIP:

10 Just to give you a bit of an idea, there are

11 three areas that are not right in the neighborhood

12 that we're working on. It's hard to see on here.

13 We've identified them before as 11C and 11D, and then

14 a little small parcel we added onto the Wedgewood

15 contract.

16 What this -- this amounts to is right back here

17 behind the school, there's one -- one hillside that's

18 all covered with kudzu where they're starting a new

19 subdivision on this outer loop of the subdivision

20 area. It's all essentially vacant, and we're just --

21 we're going to check it while we're there. I don't

22 think we found anything when we were sampling, but

23 what we were told was that that they felt like

24 something had been fired up against that hill. So

25 we're going to go ahead and clear it.

00009

01 11D is in the golf course itself, and I'm not

02 sure how the holes lay out. It's on the front nine

03 where it goes up north and turns and comes back down.

04 There's an area of woods there that haven't been

05 developed, and if any golfers are here, there's a pond

06 up there right up on the north end. That area we're

07 going to clear it. We started doing some surveying in

08 there, and also on the creek, this -- let me see if I

09 can read this road. I can't remember the name of

10 them, though. The second road that turns into the

11 subdivision off Dairy Ridge going to the east. I

12 can't remember the name of it.

13 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

14 That's Hickory Hill Road.

15 BY MR. BLANKINSHIP:

16 Hickory Hill?

17 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

18 Yeah.

19 BY MR. BLANKINSHIP:

20 In tha bottom where it drops down to the creek,

21 this year -- earlier this year they had found the

22 mines and fuses and things in there on the hillside.

23 We've got five acres that we're going to clear in

24 there to make sure all that's taken care of as well.

25 So all of that's under contract in addition to the

00010

01 work that's within the subdivision.

02 So if you see the UXB vans and the people out in

03 those areas, that's -- that's what they're doing

04 there. They're under the same restrictions in those

05 that they are in the subdivision. They have to have

06 their caps and shirts so you know exactly who they are

07 and placards on their vehicles.

08 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

09 Are there any questions on the status of the

10 activities on Wedgewood?

11 (NO RESPONSE)

12 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

13 Okay. Next on the agenda is RAB membership.

14 As many of you know and are aware, the current

15 term of this RAB, two years, is rapidly approaching

16 within the next three months, and we are soliciting

17 interest from individuals who would like to be

18 considered to serve for our next two year term.

19 We have forms available in the back of the room.

20 If you would like to be considered, we request that

21 you complete those and either leave them with us this

22 evening or mail them into the address that's on the

23 form.

24 As many of you attend these meetings, we meet

25 quarterly, and the meetings last about an hour,

00011

01 hour-and-a-half, if that.

02 If you personally are not interested or don't

03 have the time, you're always more than welcome to

04 attend the meetings. They are opened. If you are

05 aware of other individuals who might be interested,

06 feel free to take some forms to distribute those.

07 The other request for interest would be to serve

08 on a selection panel. That is a panel between three

09 and five individuals who will review those interest

10 forms and make actually the recommendation of who

11 would best serve the community to the Corps of

12 Engineers to establish our upcoming Board.

13 So, again, feel free to take some forms and

14 complete those, and this is also opened to the members

15 of the RAB as well. You will need to resubmit your

16 forms for consideration for the next term.

17 And that's all I have on the RAB.

18 David.

19 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

20 Does anybody have any new business?

21 (NO RESPONSE)

22 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

23 I'd like to thank you for your time and

24 attention, and I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.

25 BY DR. LOWRY:

00012

01 So move.

02 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

03 All those in favor?

04 (ALL RAB MEMBERS RESPOND)

05 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

06 Thank you. Have a good evening.

07 (OFF THE RECORD)

08 BY MR. JAMES LANCASTER:

09 That gentleman speaking about the mines over

10 there below the bayonet corps. On up a little bit

11 more there's still some in there that's there. I'm

12 the one that's dug them up.

13 There's something that's real particular at that

14 camp I'd like for everybody in here to know about and

15 some people in this room knows about it, and there

16 were supposed to have been some people here tonight

17 but they didn't come because they got mad.

18 And the military people was in this camp.

19 Everybody talks about the state park being safe.

20 I've got something to tell you all. There's eleven

21 railroad cars of hand grenades buried off the right of

22 Dairy Ridge Road. Eleven railroad cars full, and they

23 contain black powder and phosphorus.

24 At the upper end of Kelsey Creek where the road

25 goes into the state park entrance across where all the

00013

01 land mines was buried. Okay. Right behind the pump

02 station up the creek there's a spring. I had a good

03 friend in 1962 to get blowed out of the ground up

04 there. There's some barrels of hand grenades, and he

05 took a pick trying to separate them and it blowed up

06 and he's drawing a pension from it today.

07 Them things are still there. I've told the

08 Corps about them two-and-a-half years ago, and I can

09 go up there today and dig them up. Now I think it's

10 time to dig them things up.

11 I mean, one time I went up there, they wouldn't

12 even go up there and look at them. I've dug this

13 stuff up time after time having to prove that it's

14 there. If it wasn't there, I wouldn't say so. A lot

15 of these people that buried this stuff is dead, and

16 I've been working on a book on this camp ever since

17 1955. I've dug in this camp ever since I was a little

18 boy. I've got mountains of stuff that I've dug out of

19 there, and a lot of people know it, and I give it to a

20 lot of people in this room.

21 Wayne Bogan, I had a meeting with Wayne. He was

22 doing some research on the well on Whitestone Road

23 with the old chain gang camps there. I have a list of

24 chemicals here that was positive in this camp, and

25 there's records that are in the archives in the

00014

01 Spartanburg Herald-Journal where they was put in

02 there in 1947. When Wayne left, nothing was never

03 done about this. Them chemicals are still in that

04 well, and they need to be taken out.

05 I'm getting tired of people saying there's

06 nothing there when I know it's there. I've got some

07 friends that's in the chemical brigade at the store.

08 The Corps, the military, Mr. Gaswright, Civic Arms

09 Committee and Colonel Phil Campbell in the Pentagon do

10 not know nothing about this.

11 I'm going to dig this stuff up with the proper

12 people, and I'm going to give it to the media because

13 I -- over two years there should have been something

14 done. This stuff is not going to go away and somebody

15 is going to have to start doing something, and as to

16 DHEC, I understand was turned over to the Corps to

17 take care of it. The land samples and the 200 tons

18 of land is fired off as a firing range, and this

19 report right here off of Dairy Ridge Road, all of that

20 stuff is running down into Kelsey Creek. The people

21 are eating fish out of Lake Johnson, and I've talked

22 to the State about this and nobody has done nothing.

23 There needs to be somebody to do something. That's

24 the only thing I've got to tell you.

25 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

00015

01 Sir, I'm sorry. I didn't catch your name.

02 BY MR. LANCASTER:

03 My name is James Lancaster.

04 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

05 Mr. Lancaster, you referred to a eleven railroad

06 cars of hand grenades?

07 BY MR. LANCASTER:

08 Yes, sir.

09 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

10 What type of documentation do you have that

11 supports that?

12 BY MR. LANCASTER:

13 The guy that put them in there. I've got a tape

14 recorder, and I've got over 20 hours of tapes.

15 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

16 Of the guy that put them in there.

17 BY MR. LANCASTER:

18 Well, it took ---

19 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

20 So there's no documentation from the military?

21 There's no records? There's nothing in writing?

22 BY MR. LANCASTER:

23 Well, let me tell you people something. Camp

24 Croft was put here as a special project. There's

25 stuff stored in this camp for invasion. There's

00016

01 enough chemicals in this camp today right now that

02 poors in the whole park to the lower part of the

03 State. That was the idea if they invaded. That was

04 the invasion plan.

05 I don't know why the Corps and everybody else

06 don't contact the Pentagon and get them to open them

07 records up and get this stuff out of here that's

08 stored here.

09 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

10 Have you ever seen these invasion plans?

11 BY MR. LANCASTER:

12 Nobody has seen the invasion plans.

13 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

14 Then how do you know they exist?

15 BY MR. LANCASTER:

16 It's called the Blue Ribbon Project.

17 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

18 It's called -- have you ever seen the Blue

19 Ribbon Project?

20 BY MR. LANCASTER:

21 I've talked to people about it.

22 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

23 But you've never seen it?

24 BY MR. ROBIN ZIMMERMAN:

25 Excuse me. Bubba, it exists.

00017

01 BY MR. LANCASTER:

02 It exists.

03 BY MR. ROBIN ZIMMERMAN:

04 It -- I mean, it's on the history channel on TV

05 if you turn it on at the right time.

06 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

07 The Blue ---

08 BY MR. ROBIN ZIMMERMAN:

09 The Rainbow Project. The Blue Ribbon Project.

10 BY MR. LANCASTER:

11 Henry Byrd built this camp and this -- there's a

12 presidential bunker here and there's a US cabinet

13 bunker here. You, nobody, the Corps or the Army or

14 nobody in this thing is supposed to know about this.

15 This stuff was put here in case of invasion.

16 The chemicals was here that was going to poor to

17 the lower part of the State in case it was invaded and

18 this stuff is still here. There's bunkers all over

19 this camp. You can open them up. The Corps has got a

20 job to do, and I'm going to tell everybody here it

21 can't be done. There's so much stuff here it will

22 never be cleaned. It's impossible.

23 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

24 Mr. Lancaster, you referred to a report that you

25 have there in your hand, and where did that report

00018

01 come from and ---

02 BY MR. LANCASTER:

03 The Corps' records.

04 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

05 From the Corps of Engineers. The Corps of

06 Engineers gave that report to you that's listed as an

07 official document?

08 BY MR. LANCASTER:

09 Well, it came out of the Corps' computer.

10 Right.

11 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

12 It came out of their computer?

13 BY MR. LANCASTER:

14 Yeah.

15 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

16 And when did it come out?

17 BY MR. LANCASTER:

18 Well, I've got one report here that's '91.

19 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

20 Mr. Lancaster, will you present that report to

21 the Board at this time?

22 BY MR. LANCASTER:

23 Do what?

24 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

25 Will you present that report to the Board at

00019

01 this time?

02 BY MR. LANCASTER:

03 Yeah, this is about the lead and this is the

04 chemical that's here and the Corps admits it here

05 right there in this report right here about stuff

06 dumped in the wells and the landfills.

07 (RAB MEMBERS REVIEWING DOCUMENT)

08 BY MR. LANCASTER:

09 There's large amounts of TNT explosives down on

10 Lake Johnson and lake and creek that's never been dug

11 up.

12 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

13 There's nothing on there that says Corps of

14 Engineers or anything.

15 BY MR. LANCASTER:

16 Here's the Corps' report here.

17 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN: