April Transcript

CAMP CROFT RESTORATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING

PLACE: SOUTH CAROLINA SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF AND

THE BLIND - SWEARINGEN CONFERENCE CENTER

DATE: TUESDAY, APRIL 13, 1999

TIME: 7:00 P.M. TO 8:00 P.M.

PRESENTATION

GIVEN BY: JIM TRUELOVE

PROJECT MANAGER

U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

CHARLESTON DISTRICT

MARCIE L. SMITH

VERBATIM COURT REPORTER

BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT:

JOSEPH L. CRISSINGER

ED Y. HALL

GARY HAYES

WILLIAM B. LITTLEJOHN, SR.

W. BROWNLEE LOWRY

DAVID MULLINAX

GEORGE D. MULLINAX

GERARD PERRY

ROBERT W. POWELL, JR.

CLARY H. SMITH

SANFORD N. SMITH

JAMES B. THOMPSON, CHAIR

SHERRY WHEELER

ALSO PRESENT:

SUZY MCKINNEY

ZAPATA ENGINEERING, P.A.

100 KENILWORTH AVENUE, SUITE 104

CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA 28204

BY MR. THOMPSON:

WE WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. ALSO THE GUESTS WE HAVE HERE. WE HAVE A NEW RECORDER TONIGHT, SO IF YOU SPEAK -- AND IF YOU DO SPEAK, WE ASK THAT YOU KEEP YOUR NOTES OR COMMENTS TO TWO MINUTES. AND ALSO DEFINITELY REPEAT YOUR NAME, INCLUDING THE BOARD, TONIGHT, IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY. SO THAT SHE CAN GET OUR PROPER NAMES AND SO FORTH. TO START THE PROGRAM OFF, AND TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE EVOLUTION OF AN OE PROJECT AND HOW IT WORKS -- SUZY, ARE YOU STARTING, OR JIM?

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE TO SAY FIRST?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

NO, I'LL LET YOU ---

BY MR. THOMPSON:

BEFORE YOU START, LET ME MAKE ONE OTHER COMMENT. IF ANYBODY WOULD LIKE TO, AT THE END OF THE PROGRAM WE WILL HAVE A GENERAL SECTION. A NEW BUSINESS SECTION. IF ANYBODY WANTS TO MAKE COMMENTS, THEY'RE WELCOME TO DO IT THEN. BUT THEY'RE LIMITED TO TWO MINUTES, ALSO. AND IF NOT, WE'LL JUST ADD THEM TO THE MEETING -- MAKE THEM PART OF THE AGENDA AT OUR NEXT MEETING. OKAY, SUZY.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, AND I'D LIKE TO WELCOME EVERYONE AGAIN THIS EVENING. ON BEHALF OF THE TRANSCRIBER, I'M SUZY MCKINNEY WITH ZAPATA ENGINEERING. I THINK YOU ALL HAVE SEEN ME FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND KNOW WHO WE ARE. WE ALSO HAVE CARL BLANKENSHIP HERE THIS EVENING FROM HUNTSVILLE. AND MIKE SMITH. AND ALFONZO -- ALONZO, SORRY. AND DAVID RICH FROM HUNTSVILLE. WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO THIS EVENING IS GET EVERYBODY BACK IN ALIGNMENT WITH HOW AN ORDNANCE PROJECT BEGINS. AND IS CARRIED THROUGH. TO KIND OF REFRESH SOME OF US WHO HAVE BEEN HERE AND PROVIDE THIS INFORMATION FOR SOME OF THE FOLKS THAT ARE FAIRLY NEW TO OUR MEETINGS. HOPEFULLY THIS WILL AGAIN REEMPHASIZE THAT IT'S NOT A FAST PROJECT. AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY INEXPENSIVE. SO I WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS, THIS EVENING. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON DETAILS, ALL OF THE OVERHEADS ARE IN THE HAND OUT THAT YOU CAN PICK UP AT THE FRONT. MAKE NOTES ON THOSE, AND WE CAN NOTE SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS AT THE END. AND THAT WAY WE CAN KIND OF GET THROUGH THIS FAIRLY QUICKLY AND SPEND SOME TIME ON ANY DETAILS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE.

FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO SHOW YOU THE TIME FRAME FOR THE PROJECT AT CROFT STARTING BACK IN 1993, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN ARCHIVE SEARCH REPORT. EACH OF THESE ELEMENTS WILL BE DISCUSSED IN MORE DETAIL AS WE GO THROUGH THIS EVENING. IN THE '94 AND '95, TIME FRAME, WE HAD TWO TIME CRITICAL REMOVAL ACTIONS THAT TOOK PLACE. THOSE WERE SURFACE CLEARANCE ACTIONS, AND WE'LL DESCRIBE WHAT THAT ENTAILS HERE IN A FEW MINUTES. WE HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT OF TWO ENGINEERING EVALUATIONS. WE HAVE HAD REMOVAL ACTIONS TAKING PLACE IN 1997. WE HAVE REMOVAL ACTIONS THAT WERE UNDERTAKEN ACTUALLY THROUGH 1998, INTO 1999, AT DR. LOWRY'S PROPERTY. AND THIS HAND OUT SHOULD BE THE FIRST OF YOUR PACKAGE. AND I'LL LET YOU SPEND SOME TIME GOING THROUGH THIS. WHAT I'VE DONE IS TRIED TO BREAK OUT THESE AREAS WITH RELATIONSHIP TO THEIR SIZE. TO THE DATES THAT THOSE ACTIONS TOOK PLACE. TO THE LEVEL OF EFFORT FOR THE CLEARANCE. AND THE ITEMS THAT WERE FOUND IN THOSE AREAS. SO WE'LL WALK THROUGH THIS AS WE GO THROUGH THIS EVENING.

THE FIRST STEP IN AN ORDNANCE PROJECT IS REALLY THE PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT. AND THIS ENTAILS WHAT IS CALLED AN INPR, OR AN INVENTORY PROJECT REPORT. AND WHAT IT DOES FIRST OF ALL IS DETERMINES REALLY WHETHER A PROJECT IS ELIGIBLE UNDER THIS DRT FUDS PROGRAM. IT'S A PRELIMINARY ANALYSIS. WAS THIS A DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SITE? ARE THERE ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS? ARE THERE ORDNANCE CONCERNS? AND THIS KIND OF KICKS OFF THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF WILL THIS FALL WITHIN THE ARMY'S FUNDING EFFORT AND PROGRAM, AND, THEREFORE, WE CAN FOLLOW THROUGH THE STEPS. ANOTHER QUESTION THAT IT DOES SEEK TO ADDRESS IS, IS THERE IMMEDIATE THREAT TO THE PUBLIC. AND THAT'S ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS THAT ARE ASKED. THIS IS NOT AN IN DEPTH INVESTIGATION. IT'S A RECORDS REVIEW PRIMARILY. THERE ARE NO CHARACTERIZATION OR SAMPLING EFFORTS THAT ARE UNDERTAKEN AT THIS STAGE. THIS ALSO TAKES YOU INTO THE DEVELOPMENT OF AN ARCHIVE SEARCH REPORT, WHICH AGAIN IS AN EVALUATION OF OLD RECORDS. VISITING THE HISTORICAL ARCHIVES IN ATLANTA AND WASHINGTON AND OTHER LOCATIONS. TO AGAIN DETERMINE WHAT WAS THE FORMER LAND USE. WHAT WERE THE RANGES OUT THERE. AND TO GET SOME BACKGROUND HISTORICAL INFORMATION ON THE SITE.

THE FIRST QUESTION THAT IT DOES SEEK TO ADDRESS IS, IS THERE AN IMMEDIATE THREAT TO THE PUBLIC. AND IF THERE IS, THE RESPONSE TO THAT IS WHAT'S CALLED A TIME CRITICAL REMOVAL ACTION. AND I WANT YOU TO KEEP IN MIND THAT THIS TYPE OF ACTION CAN TAKE PLACE AT ANY TIME DURING THE DURATION OF A PROJECT. THESE ACTIONS WERE ACTUALLY THE TWO THAT WERE UNDERTAKEN THAT WERE EARLY IN THE CAMP CROFT EFFORT. AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THOSE IN A MINUTE. BUT AT ANY POINT IN TIME, IF THERE IS AN IMMINENT THREAT TO THE PUBLIC FROM AN EXPLOSION, A FIRE, OR OTHER CONCERN, THE TIME CRITICAL REMOVAL ACTION CAN TAKE PLACE. THEY'RE INITIATED FAIRLY QUICKLY. THEY'RE SHORT IN DURATION. AND WITH RESPECT TO A REMOVAL ACTION, THEY'RE NOT AT THAT LEVEL OF EXPENSE. THEY'RE USUALLY AROUND MAYBE A MILLION DOLLARS. AND IT'S A SURFACE REMOVAL PRIMARILY. TO AGAIN ADDRESS THE IMMEDIATE THREAT TO THE PUBLIC UNTIL FURTHER EVALUATIONS AND CHARACTERIZATIONS CAN TAKE PLACE, AND THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE CAN BE INITIATED.

THE SECOND TIME CRITICAL REMOVAL ACTION TOOK PLACE ACTUALLY IN THE PARK, NEAR THE JOGGING AND FITNESS TRAIL, AND THE PICNIC AREA. AGAIN A SURFACE CLEARANCE ONLY OF APPROXIMATELY 50 ACRES. THIRTY-FIVE UNEXPLODED ORDNANCE ITEMS WERE FOUND AND 546 POUNDS OF SCRAP. THE NEXT IN THE PROCESS IS A SITE INVESTIGATION. BECAUSE REALLY TO THIS POINT, THE PROJECT AREA HAS NOT BEEN CHARACTERIZED. THE ONLY ACTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN UNDERTAKEN ARE A HISTORICAL REVIEW. AND AT THIS PROJECT, ADDRESSING SOME IMMEDIATE HEALTH THREATS. SO THE SITE INVESTIGATION AGAIN IS THE ARCHIVE SEARCH REPORT, WHICH WAS INITIATED UNDER THE PRELIMINARY ASSESSMENT, AND THE ACTUAL SITE CHARACTERIZATION NOW BEGINS. THERE HAVE BEEN, AND I'LL BACKTRACK BRIEFLY, TWO ARCHIVE SEARCH REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN PREPARED. ONE WAS PREPARED IN 1993, AND A SUPPLEMENTAL ARCHIVE SEARCH REPORT WAS PREPARED IN 1996. AND THESE ARE -- ALL OF THESE DOCUMENTS THAT WE REFERENCED ACTUALLY ARE AVAILABLE IN THE LIBRARY FOR YOUR REVIEW. THE SUPPLEMENTAL ARCHIVE SEARCH WAS THE RESULT OF ADDITIONAL RESEARCH THAT INDICATED THAT THE BOUNDARY OF THE FORMER CAMP WAS BEYOND WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY EXPECTED. AND IT ADDRESSES THOSE ADDITIONAL AREAS.

AS FAR AS NOW ASSESSMENTS AND CHARACTERIZATION OF THE FORMER CAMP, THE NEXT STEP IN THE PROCESS IS AN ENGINEERING EVALUATION COST ANALYSIS, OR AN EECA. THIS DOCUMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT IT INITIALLY BEGINS AS, REVIEWS THE BACKGROUND OF THE SITE. IDENTIFIES THE ORDNANCE CONCERNS. AND ALSO THEN INCORPORATES FINDINGS FROM SITE CHARACTERIZATION WITH THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS WITH OUR CONTRACTORS OUT IN THE FIELD COLLECTING DATA. THE DOCUMENT THEN GOES ON TO IDENTIFY THE RISKS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE FINDINGS. AND I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT. THERE ARE SOME STATISTICAL APPLICATIONS ON HOW THEY COME UP WITH THOSE RISKS. RISK REDUCTION ALTERNATIVES ARE PRESENTED FOR ALL OF THOSE FINDINGS. THE EECA DOES ALLOW FOR A PUBLIC PARTICIPATION COMPONENT, WHICH CARRIES THROUGH THE ENTIRE PROGRAM. OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE PUBLIC TO REVIEW THE DRAFT DOCUMENT AND PROVIDE COMMENTS. AND THERE IS AN ANALYSIS OF THE ALTERNATIVES THEN THAT ARE PRESENTED TO REDUCE THE RISKS BASED ON CAN THEY BE IMPLEMENTED. ARE THEY COST EFFECTIVE. AND IN GENERAL HOW EFFECTIVE ARE THEY IN MANAGING THOSE ASSOCIATED RISKS.

NOW, AS FAR AS DATA COLLECTED, THERE ARE VARIOUS WAYS TO COLLECT DATA ON THESE SITES. PRIMARILY THE DATA WAS COLLECTED THROUGH A MAG AND FLAG ROUTINE HERE, AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY'LL TAKE THESE AREAS. AND FOR INSTANCE AN IDENTIFIED OPERABLE UNIT TWO. AND THAT AREA WILL BE SUBDIVIDED INTO GRIDS. SOMETIMES THEY'RE 100 FOOT BY 100 FOOT GRIDS. TO MAXIMIZE THE AREA THAT'S COVERED, SOMETIMES THOSE GRIDS WOULD BE SKEWED INTO DIFFERENT ORIENTATIONS. THE OBJECTIVE IS TO COLLECT DATA AS COMPREHENSIVELY AS POSSIBLE. AND HERE WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF A 100 FOOT BY 100 FOOT SAMPLE GRID, WHERE THE SURVEY TEAM WOULD WALK THE LANES WITH A MAGNETOMETER THAT WOULD REGISTER READINGS. AND THEN THEY WOULD FLAG THOSE HITS ESSENTIALLY. AND THIS IS WHAT THE TEAM WOULD LOOK LIKE WITH THE MAGNETOMETER. AND THEY WOULD STICK A PIN IN THE GROUND TO IDENTIFY THOSE POINTS. STATISTICS ARE THEN RUN BASED UPON THE READINGS. BASED UPON THE TYPE OF EQUIPMENT THAT'S USED TO GATHER THE DATA FOR WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GO BACK AND THEN SAMPLE. AND DURING THIS GEOPHYSICAL SURVEY AND SAMPLE CHARACTERIZATION, OR SAMPLE COLLECTION, YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY DIGGING EVERY SINGLE HIT. YOU'RE GOING TO DIG BASED ON STATISTICS. AND THIS WILL VARY FROM PROJECT TO PROJECT. DIFFERENT TARGETS. AND THAT THEN IS USED TO TRY TO DETERMINE WHAT THE RISK IS. WHAT IS OUT THERE. HOW DEEP IS IT. WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS. ARE THEY LIVE ROUNDS. ARE THEY FRAGMENTS. IS IT SCRAP. AND THEN ALL OF THAT GETS ROLLED BACK INTO THE EECA DOCUMENT WHERE THE RISK REDUCTION ALTERNATIVES ARE PRESENTED. BASED UPON THE FINDINGS AND THE SITE CHARACTERIZATION. AS I MENTIONED, THIS WHOLE PROCESS DOES ALLOW FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION. REVIEW AND COMMENT ON DOCUMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN THE LIBRARY. OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE HAVE HAD HERE HAVE BEEN TWO OPEN HOUSES. ONE EARLY IN THE PROJECT IN 1995. WE HELD ANOTHER ONE LAST YEAR. WE HAVE OUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED BOARD MEETINGS. WE CAN HOLD A MEETING AT ANY TIME ONE IS REQUESTED. AND WE MAINTAIN THE REPOSITORY IN THE LIBRARY, AND IT'S AS CURRENT AS THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE AVAILABLE. ALL OF THE TRANSCRIPTS ARE ALSO AVAILABLE IN THE LIBRARY. SO ONCE THE EECA DOCUMENT IS FINALIZED, YOU THEN HAVE AN EECA ACTION MEMORANDUM. THAT WILL SUMMARIZE THIS REPORT AND THEN ACTUALLY MAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS ON WHAT THE APPROPRIATE ACTION IS FOR A DESIGNATED AREA. AND LET ME NOW APPLY THAT TO EXACTLY WHAT'S GONE ON HERE AT CAMP CROFT. WE HAVE HAD TWO EECA DOCUMENTS PREPARED. THE PHASE I DOCUMENT WAS PREPARED IN JANUARY OF '96, AND THE PHASE II DOCUMENT WAS JANUARY, 1998. THE PHASE II EECA IDENTIFIED NINE, WHAT WE'RE CALLING, ORDNANCE OPERABLE UNITS OR OOUs. 1A THROUGH 8. WE HAVE SOME THAT ARE COMPRISED OF PRIVATE PROPERTIES, AND A LARGE PERCENTAGE DO FALL WITHIN THE CROFT STATE PARK BOUNDARY. AND EACH OF THESE AREAS WAS EVALUATED AND CHARACTERIZED. EACH OF THESE ALSO HAVE DIFFERENT LAND USES. SEVERAL AREAS WITHIN THE PARK ARE RECREATIONAL SURFACE ONLY. PRIVATE PROPERTIES IN WEDGEWOOD, THOSE USES ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. THEY'RE RESIDENCE. THERE COULD BE SOME GARDENING AND CONSTRUCTION ACTIVITIES, SO IT HAS GOT A DIFFERENT LAND USE TO IT. ORDNANCE OPERABLE UNIT 7, WHICH WAS THE CAMPGROUND AND FITNESS TRAIL AREA DOWN NEAR THE PARK OFFICE, IS A HIGH USE AREA. SO ALL OF THOSE LAND USES ALSO COME INTO PLAY WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO DETERMINE WHAT RISK REDUCTION ALTERNATIVES THERE ARE. AND YOU SHOULD HAVE A MAP IN YOUR PACKAGE THAT THEN SHOWS ALL OF THESE AREAS. AND WHAT WE'VE DONE HOPEFULLY TO MAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE VISUAL IS HERE ARE THE NINE AREAS. AND BASED UPON THE CHARACTERIZATION, AND THE LAND USE, WHAT WAS RECOMMENDED AS THE RISK REDUCTION ALTERNATIVE FOR EACH OF THE AREAS THAT WE PRESENTED IN THE PHASE I EECA ARE COLOR CODED. SO ALL OF THE GREEN AREAS AT 1A, 8, AND 5, WERE DESIGNATED FOR NO FURTHER ACTIONS. BASED UPON THE LAND USE AND THE FINDINGS DURING THE CHARACTERIZATIONS. AREAS 2 AND 1B WERE IDENTIFIED AS AREAS THAT SHOULD REQUIRE SURFACE CLEARANCE. AND SURFACE CLEARANCE IS ANYTHING THAT'S VISIBLE FROM THE SURFACE OR VISIBLY PROTRUDING FROM THE SURFACE. AREAS 3, WHICH IS THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE RESIDENCE IN WEDGEWOOD, AND THE HIGH USE AREA NUMBER 7, AND DR. LOWRY'S PROPERTY, NUMBER 6, WERE ALL IDENTIFIED FOR CLEARANCE TO DEPTH. BECAUSE OF THOSE DESIGNATED LAND USES. THE LAND FILL AND THE USE OF DR. LOWRY'S PROPERTY. AND THE AMOUNT OF ORDNANCE, AND THE LIKELIHOOD OF SOMEONE COMING INTO CONTACT WITH IT AT NUMBER 7, AND AGAIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THE LACK OF ABILITY TO RESTRICT LAND USE. IT'S DIFFICULT TO TELL A PROPERTY OWNER WHAT HE CAN OR CANNOT DO. WITHIN THE PARK IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO SAY NO DIGGING IN THIS AREA. AND THAT WOULD WARRANT A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF CLEAN UP.

SO THESE WERE THE RECOMMENDED ALTERNATIVES AND WHAT WAS FOLLOWED UP AS FAR AS RESPONSE BASED UPON THE FINDINGS OF THE PHASE I EECA. AND THIS JUST AGAIN LISTS THOSE ALTERNATIVES. ORIGINALLY -- AND ACTUALLY THIS IS A MISTAKE. THE BUY BACK WAS FOR OOU6. DR. LOWRY'S PROPERTY WAS IN THE EECA PROPOSED FOR A GOVERNMENT BUY BACK, BUT WAS REJECTED. SO THIS ACTUALLY IS FOR OOU6.

IN YOUR NEXT PAGE IN YOUR HAND OUT IT SHOULD PRESENT THE MAP FOR THESE ADDITIONAL AREAS. I THINK THERE ARE 19 OF THOSE IN TOTAL. AND AGAIN COLOR CODED. BASED UPON WHAT THE PHASE II RISK REDUCTION ALTERNATIVES FOR EACH OF THOSE AREAS WAS DEFINED. ALL OF THE NINE OOU9 UNITS WERE DESIGNATED FOR NO FURTHER ACTION. THERE IS PREDOMINANTLY SMALL ARMS IN THOSE AREAS. THE ORDNANCE UNITS 10A THROUGH D WERE DESIGNATED FOR SURFACE CLEARANCE. AND THE REMAINING UNITS WERE IDENTIFIED FOR CLEARANCE FOR USE. AGAIN, BASED UPON WHAT WAS FOUND, THE ASSOCIATED RISK TO THE PUBLIC, AND THE ABILITY TO CONTROL FUTURE LAND USE IN THOSE AREAS. AND THIS JUST LISTS THOSE FOR YOU. THE NEXT STEP IN THE PHASE IS ONCE THOSE RISK REDUCTION ALTERNATIVES HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AND PRESENTED IN THAT FINAL ACTION MEMORANDUM, YOU MOVE INTO THE REMOVAL DESIGN. AND THOSE REMOVAL DESIGNS ARE ACTUALLY ENGINEERING DESIGNS TO IMPLEMENT THE REMOVAL ACTIONS. THERE IS A REMOVAL DESIGN OR ENGINEERING DESIGN FOR DR. LOWRY'S PROPERTY, OOU6, WHICH IS IN THE LIBRARY. AND THESE WILL ADDRESS ONLY THOSE FINAL SELECTED SOLUTIONS TO EACH OF THOSE AREAS OF CONCERN. FROM THE REMOVAL DESIGN PHASE YOU THEN MOVE INTO THE REMOVAL ACTION, WHICH IS WHERE CONTRACTORS ARE ACTUALLY OUT IMPLEMENTING THE CLEAN UP OF THOSE AREAS. SAFETY IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY ON THE SITE. SO IT MIGHT NOT HAPPEN AS QUICKLY AS PROPERTY OWNERS MIGHT WANT TO SEE SOME OF THESE REMOVAL ACTIONS TAKE PLACE. DEPENDING UPON THE TERRAIN, THE DENSITY OF TREE COVER, THE DENSITY OF SCRAP. THE DENSITY OF ORDNANCE OUT THERE. THE ACTIONS ARE VERY SLOW AND LABOR INTENSIVE, AND AS YOU CAN IMAGINE, CAN BE FAIRLY COSTLY. REMOVAL ACTIONS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED FOR THOSE AREAS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED IN THE PHASE I EECA. 1B, 2, 3 AND 7, AS WELL AS AREA A39, AND DR. LOWRY'S PROPERTY IS APPROXIMATELY 90% COMPLETE.

SO THAT SOUNDS KIND OF OMINOUS. BUT IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED TO DATE OUT HERE, I KNOW SOME OF YOU HAVE BEEN SITTING IN HERE FOR FOUR YEARS. LET'S SEE. LET ME JUMP AHEAD FOR A MINUTE. WE SPENT ABOUT TEN MILLION DOLLARS ON THIS PROJECT FROM ITS INCEPTION. OVER 300 -- 3,000 ACRES, EXCUSE ME, HAVE BEEN EVALUATED AND CHARACTERIZED. ABOUT 2,000 ACRES HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED AS NO FURTHER ACTION. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, SEVERAL HUNDRED ACRES INTO THAT PHASE I EECA HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED, AND WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS THE ALTERNATIVES TO ADDRESS THE PHASE II AREAS. SO THERE'S STILL A WAYS TO GO. ESPECIALLY CONTINGENT UPON THE LEVEL OF FUNDING THAT WE GET FROM YEAR TO YEAR. BUT I THINK YOU CAN MAYBE HOPEFULLY APPRECIATE A LITTLE BIT MORE THE LENGTH OF THE PROCESS. THE NUMBER OF CONTRACTORS THAT WILL BE ON SITE DURING THE COURSE OF THE PROCESS. THE PAPERWORK AND THE DOCUMENTS THAT ARE DRAFTED AND FINALIZED AND COMMENTED ON. SO IT'S NOT A REAL QUICK TURN AROUND TO ACTUALLY CLEAN UP A SITE. POST REMOVAL ACTIONS, THERE ARE ACTIVITIES THAT MAY TAKE PLACE ONCE THE REMOVAL ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED. PUBLIC EDUCATION. MAYBE KEEPING FOLKS AWARE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN OUT HERE, AND WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED WHAT WE WANTED TO. BUT THERE'S NO GUARANTEE THAT IT'S 100% CLEAR. THERE'S NO WAY TO GUARANTEE THAT. KEEP PEOPLE INFORMED OF THE FORMER USES OF THE AREA AND JUST TO BE SMART. POSSIBLY ANOTHER ALTERNATIVE WOULD BE PERIODIC SWEEPS FOR ORDNANCE. LAND USE RESTRICTIONS OR LONG TERM MONITORING. AND THOSE WOULD BE PROPOSED IN SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS THAT WOULD BE PREPARED, I GUESS, UNDER THE REMOVAL DESIGN REPORTS.

BY MR. SANFORD SMITH:

SUZY, WOULD YOU REPEAT THOSE FIGURES. THE TEN MILLION DOLLARS AND HOW MANY ACRES HAVE BEEN DONE? SANFORD SMITH SPEAKING.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

FROM COUNTING UP -- THANKS, SANFORD. FROM JUST GOING THROUGH THE DOCUMENTS TO TRY TO COUNT UP THE ACRES THAT ARE ON THESE MAPS, ABOUT TEN MILLION DOLLARS HAS BEEN SPENT. AND CARL OR JIM, LET ME KNOW IF I'M OFF ON SOME OF THESE. OVER 3,000 ACRES HAVE BEEN EVALUATED AND CHARACTERIZED. AND THOSE DO INCLUDE THE UNITS IDENTIFIED IN BOTH THE PHASE I EECA, AND THE PHASE II EECA. ABOUT 2,000 ACRES HAVE BEEN DESIGNATED FOR NO FURTHER ACTION. BASED UPON THE FINDINGS OF THOSE CHARACTERIZATIONS. AND REMOVAL ACTIONS HAVE BEEN COMPLETED ON BETWEEN SIX AND SEVEN HUNDRED ACRES. AND I DO HAVE TWO MAPS UP HERE THAT REPRESENT THE SAME MAPS THAT ARE IN YOUR HAND OUT. AND ALTHOUGH THEY'RE DIFFICULT TO SEE FROM YOUR SEATS, AFTER THE MEETING YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO LOOK AT THIS MAP, AND IT'S A DUPLICATE OF THE MAP BACK BEHIND SHERRY. YOU HAVE YOUR BASE MAP OF THE FORMER CAMP AND THE CROFT STATE PARK BOUNDARY. THE FIRST OVERLAY IDENTIFIES THE TWO AREAS THAT WERE THE TIME CRITICAL REMOVAL ACTIONS IN '94 AND '95. AGAIN, THOSE WERE SURFACE CLEARANCE ONLY. TO ADDRESS IMMEDIATE CONCERNS TO THE PUBLIC. THE NEXT ARE THOSE EIGHT AREAS, NINE AREAS, IDENTIFIED IN THE PHASE I EECA. WITH THE KEY FOR THE RECOMMENDED RESPONSE ACTIONS, AND THE RESPONSE ACTIONS THAT ACTUALLY WERE TAKEN PLACE FOR THE PHASE I EECA. AND YOU HAVE THOSE AREAS IDENTIFIED IN THE PHASE II EECA, WITH THEIR RECOMMENDED RESPONSE -- AND THE LAST OVERLAY, SEVERAL OF YOU, REALLY FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE PROJECT TO PRESENT, HAVE GIVEN US AREAS OF CONCERNS THAT YOU MIGHT THINK THERE ARE ADDITIONAL CONCERNS FOR MUNITIONS. AND WHAT WE'VE DONE IS BASED UPON THOSE DESCRIPTIONS ATTEMPTED TO PLOT THOSE TO KIND OF SEE WHAT AREAS MAYBE HAVE BEEN MISSED, OR WHERE THEY DO FALL WITHIN AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN CHARACTERIZED, OR DO THEY EVEN FALL WITHIN WHAT HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS THE FORMER CAMP BOUNDARY. SO YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO FLIP THROUGH THIS AND THE ONE OVER THERE ARE IDENTICAL CHARTS. ANY QUESTIONS?

BY MR. DUBOSE:

YES, I'VE GOT ONE.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

YOUR NAME, PLEASE?

BY MR. DUBOSE:

NAME, MIKE DUBOSE. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU HOLD A MEETING LIKE THIS, AND YOU DON'T DISCUSS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT WAS FOUND ON THIS PROPERTY THIS PAST YEAR. LET'S BE FAIR ABOUT IT. YOU CAN TALK ALL NIGHT, LADY. AND YOU WERE NEVER HERE.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

I HAVE THE FINDINGS DOCUMENTED ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

YOU HAVE THE FINDINGS? WHO HAS THEM YOU SAY?

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

THEY'RE IN THE LIBRARY, AND YOU CAN GO THROUGH THE LIST ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

OH, THEY ARE? WELL, I'D LIKE TO HAVE A COPY, WHEN YOU GOT A CHANCE. I WAS HERE. I WANT IT. I WANT SOMETHING FROM THIS.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

LET ME ASK YOU. WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM THIS, SIR?

BY MR. DUBOSE:

I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I WANT. I WANT THIS PLACE CLEANED UP.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

WE'RE CLEANING THIS PLACE UP.

BY MR. DUBOSE:

YOU ARE?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

YES, SIR.

BY MR. DUBOSE:

WELL, IT'S FUNNY YOU FIND THIS STUFF, BUT YOU NEVER PUT IT ON A MAP, AND YOU NEVER PRODUCT IT. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, SIR?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY.

BY MR. DUBOSE:

I THINK YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

NO, SIR, I DON'T.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

WE'RE WAITING ON YOUR TAXES IS WHAT WE'RE WAITING FOR.

BY MR. DUBOSE:

OH, IS THAT IT?

BY MR. THOMPSON:

WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITHOUT ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

WELL, NO WONDER. YOU BLEW THE MONEY YOU'VE GOT. WHY DON'T YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, SIR. YEAH.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

DO YOU WANT TO GIVE HIM EXAMPLES OF WHERE ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

LET'S GET ON THIS THING. I MEAN, THE HELL WITH THIS -- JESUS CHRIST.

BY MR. SANFORD SMITH:

MR. DUBOSE, WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? GO OUT WITH PICKS AND SHOVELS AND DIG IT UP?

BY MR. DUBOSE:

NO, SIR.

BY MR. SANFORD SMITH:

THEN WHAT DO YOU ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

THERE'S STUFF HERE THAT WAS PICKED UP THIS YEAR THAT THEY SAID NEVER HAPPENED IN THIS CAMP. ALL I'M ASKING FOR IS TRY TO GET THE STUFF SO THAT YOU CAN CLEAR YOUR PROPERTY AND DO SOMETHING WITH IT. I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOU ABOUT YOUR PROPERTY. I'M ARGUING ABOUT SOMEONE RIDING A HORSE OUT HERE OR OUT CAMPING OR SOMETHING, AND HE BLOWS HIMSELF TO HELL. NOW, MISTER, I WAS THERE.

BY MR. SANFORD SMITH:

SO WAS I.

BY MR. DUBOSE:

WHERE? WHAT YEAR?

BY MR. SANFORD SMITH:

I LIVED ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE WHOLE ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

I'M NOT INTERESTED IN WHERE THE HELL YOU LIVED.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

OKAY, NOW ---

BY MR. DUBOSE:

YEAH, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN WHAT YOU GOT TO SAY.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

EVEN THE ONES THAT WAS STOLEN OR DISAPPEARED AND HAVE MOSTLY BEEN REPLACED AND WHATEVER. BUT WE'RE BACK TO WHAT I ASKED YOU AND REPORTED TO YOU A LONG TIME AGO. THE AREAS THAT IS IN THOSE DOCUMENTS DOWN AT THE LIBRARY THAT STATES THIS IS BAD, BAD STUFF. AND YOU GUYS DON'T DO ANYTHING. AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE AREA DOWN ON PACOLET THAT'S NOT EVEN MENTIONED ANYMORE. THE AREA DOWN ON THE CREEK DOWN THERE THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SO HIGHLY BAD THAT'S ON PARK PROPERTY. NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT. THIS IS IN YOUR RECORDS. HOW COME IT HASN'T BEEN CLEANED UP OR SOMETHING SAID.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

SIR, I WAS -- IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY ANY RECORD THAT SHOWS ANY AREA THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED AS A PROBLEM THAT WE'RE NOT WORKING ON, WE WILL ADD THAT TO AND WORK ON THAT AREA. BUT WHEN YOU COME IN AND SAY THAT THESE AREAS AREN'T COVERED, TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THEY ARE COVERED. WE'RE NOT TRYING NOT TO CLEAN UP ANY AREA THAT WE KNOW OF THAT IS CONTAMINATED WITH ORDNANCE.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

I REPORTED IT OVER A YEAR AGO. YOU COULD EVEN GO BACK TO THE REPORTS AND SEE WHAT I TOLD YOU.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

YOU READ OFF A LARGE NUMBER THAT YOU SAID THAT HAD BEEN REPORTED TO MR. BOGAN THAT HAD NO ACTION. I ASKED YOU AT THAT TIME IF YOU WOULD SUBMIT THOSE TO ME IN WRITING, SO THAT I COULD COMPARE THOSE WITH THE AREAS THAT WE HAVE LAID OUT ON THE MAP, AND IF THOSE REVEAL ANY ADDITIONAL AREAS THAT WE NEED TO INVESTIGATE, WE WILL INVESTIGATE.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

MR. BOGAN TOOK ALL THE REPORTS WITH HIM.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

THE REPORTS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. I KNOW OF NOTHING THAT ARE IN OUR CURRENT REPORTS THAT ARE NOT BEING ADDRESSED. NOW, IF YOU GO BACK TO SOME EARLIER DOCUMENTS, EARLY DOCUMENTS DO NOT GET INTO THE SPECIFICS OF WHERE THINGS ARE. AND THEY STATE BROAD ISSUES AS IN THAT THERE WAS A PROJECT JUSTIFIED TO COME IN HERE AND LOOK AT THIS SITE. AND DETERMINE THE DEGREE OF CONTAMINATION IN AREAS. THOSE TALK ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN HERE THAT WERE NOT NECESSARILY REVEALED WHEN WE DID THE DETAILED ANALYSIS. BUT IF YOU KNOW OF AN AREA THAT'S IN ONE OF OUR REPORTS THAT WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED, IF YOU'LL POINT THAT AREA OUT TO ME, I'LL EITHER RESEARCH IT AND FIND OUT IF WE HAVE ADDRESSED IT, OR I WILL DETERMINE HOW WE WILL GO ABOUT ADDRESSING IT.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

THAT WAS JUST THE SAME DAY THAT WE HAD THE OPEN HOUSE DOWN THERE, WHEN IT FIRST STARTED. AND I TOOK TWO REPORTERS OVER TO WEDGEWOOD BECAUSE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A HIGHLY BAD SPOT. THEN ALL OF THE SUDDEN, THERE WASN'T NOTHING WRONG OVER THERE. AND NOW IT'S BACK ON THE DEAL AS REALLY BAD, BAD, BAD. AND BESIDES THAT, THE OTHER QUESTION REAL FAST: WHERE'S ALL THE PEOPLE FROM WEDGEWOOD TONIGHT? WERE THEY INVITED HERE TONIGHT?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

NOT SPECIFICALLY. NO, THEY WEREN'T.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

WHY NOT?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO DO THAT ON A SEPARATE THING, BECAUSE WE ARE FIXING TO GO BACK INTO THEIR AREA. WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS AND DIRECT LETTERS TO THEM TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHAT WE'RE COMING IN TO DO. BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY AT THIS MEETING.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

MR. OSBORNE, THEY'RE ON THE MAILING LIST. THEY GET FLIERS EVERY -- ANNOUNCING EVERY MEETING.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

GENTLEMAN ON THE BACK ROW WITH HIS HAND UP.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

YOUR NAME, SIR?

BY MR. THOMPSON:

IDENTIFY YOURSELF SO SHE CAN GET IT.

BY MR. LANCASTER:

MY NAME IS JAMES LANCASTER.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

MR. LANCASTER.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

YES, SIR.

A FEW QUESTIONS -- I'D LIKE TO ADD MINE TO THE LIST, AND I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. IF I CAN HAVE -- JUST FOR ABOUT TWO MINUTES. THIS GENTLEMAN RIGHT HERE WAS IN THE 28TH BATTALION IN THIS CAMP. HE WENT ALL THROUGH THE EUROPE CAMPAIGN. HE WAS A SERGEANT MAJOR IN THIS CAMP. THIS MAN RIGHT HERE KNOWS MORE ABOUT THIS ARMY CAMP THAN ANY MAN ALIVE, AND HE'S JUST ONE OF THE FEW THAT'S LEFT. HE'S IN HIS EIGHTIES. AND ANOTHER THING, I'VE GOT A REPORT AND STUFF ABOUT THIS CAMP THAT SAID NOTHING WASN'T THERE. I'VE BEEN UP THERE TWICE AND DUG UP -- GIVE THEM TO THE SLED ONE TIME. GIVE THEM TO THE COUNTY THE OTHER. ON ANOTHER OCCASION DUG UP HAND GRENADES. AND RECEIVED A LETTER FROM THE CORPS SAYING THE AREA WASN'T IMPORTANT FOR THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THEY HAD AND ALL THAT. I'VE GOT THE LETTER. THEN GO UP THERE AND THERE'S LAND MINES. GOT THE PICTURES RIGHT HERE WHERE THEY WAS DUG UP. BROUGHT THE PAPER WHERE IT WAS TURNED INTO SLED AND ALL THAT. THAT'S ONE THING. NOW, WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN, WAYNE BOGAN AND I WENT DOWN ON THE ROAD. THERE'S SOME WELLS DOWN THERE WITH CHEMICALS IN IT. A ARCHIVE SEARCH WAS DONE ON IT. AND THE STUFF IS THERE AND HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED. I TALKED TO SOME BOYS THAT'S IN THE CHEMICAL BRIGADE IN CHARLESTON THAT WAS AT DESERT STORM. AND IF THEY'RE NOT GOING TO REMOVE THEM, AND THEY SAY IN THE REPORT THAT IT'S NOT THERE, WHEN THIS STUFF IS DUG UP, IT'S GOING TO LOOK BAD ON SOMEBODY. THEY'RE GOING TO DIG IT UP. AND THAT'S THE ONLY THING I GOT TO SAY.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I'D LIKE TO RESPOND. THE LETTER -- AND IF THIS IS A LETTER FROM ME, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHICH AREA YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BUT THE LETTER FROM ME DID NOT TELL YOU THAT THAT AREA WAS NOT IMPORTANT. WHAT IT SAID WAS THAT IT WAS PART OF THE PARK PROPERTY, AND, THEREFORE, THE USAGE IN THAT AREA WAS RESTRICTED. AND, THEREFORE, IT WAS NOT HIGH ON THE PRIORITY -- HIGH ENOUGH ON THE PRIORITY LIST TO SPEND THE MONEY THAT WE HAD RIGHT NOW TO GO DO ALL OF THE INVESTIGATION. BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE'S THINGS THERE. IT DOES NOT BELIEVE -- MEAN THAT WE WILL NOT COME IN THERE AND TRY TO CLEAN IT UP. IF THE ORDNANCE -- YOU -- WHEN THE PROPERTY THAT YOU AND I WENT TO, WE WALKED THE SITE. WE LOOKED FOR THINGS. THEY WERE NOT ON THE SURFACE. NOW, WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE THINGS UNDER THE GROUND, WE DID NOT TAKE A MAGNETOMETER AT THAT TIME. WE DID NOT HAVE THE PERSON HERE TO DO THAT. BUT WE TOLD YOU WHEN WE WERE BACK IN THE AREA, WE WOULD COME IN, AND WE WOULD DO A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION WITH OUR TYPICAL TYPE OF INVESTIGATION TO DETERMINE IF THERE WERE THINGS THERE THAT NEED TO BE CLEANED UP. NOW, IF PEOPLE ARE GOING OUT AND LOOKING FOR THINGS UNDERGROUND, I CAN ONLY ADVISE YOU THAT THAT'S A VERY RISKY PROCESS. YOU SHOULD NOT BE LOOKING FOR THINGS THAT ARE UNDERGROUND. IT'S NOT THAT WE WANT TO HIDE WHAT'S THERE. IT'S THAT IT'S A DANGEROUS PROCESS. IF THERE IS SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT CAN EXPLODE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE GOING AROUND PROBING AROUND LOOKING FOR THEM. IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO HIDE WHAT'S THERE. IT IS NOT THAT WE DON'T WANT TO COME IN AND CLEAN UP THE PROPERTY. BUT THAT IS A DANGEROUS PROCESS FOR SOME INDIVIDUAL TO GO OUT AND LOOK FOR THEM. WE -- WHEN WE HAVE THE FUNDS, AND WHEN IT REACHES A LEVEL THAT WE CAN DETERMINE THAT IT'S A CRITICAL ISSUE -- IF IT BECOMES A CRITICAL ISSUE AND THAT THINGS ARE THERE, WE WILL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES, INCLUDING ANOTHER TIME CRITICAL REMOVAL ACTION TO CLEAN UP THE ORDNANCE.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

ROBYN, DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION?

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

ROBYN ZIMMERMAN. I THINK I'M WELL KNOWN AROUND HERE. I HOPE. ANYWAY I TRY TO BE. ACCORDING TO WHAT MR. DUBOSE WAS SAYING, MR. TRUELOVE, AS YOU KNOW, WE SPENT THE ENTIRE DAY, JANUARY THE 28TH, 1999, THIS PAST JANUARY, MR. TRUELOVE, MR. BLANKENSHIP, MYSELF, AND A GENTLEMAN, MR. JOHN DENNY. WE SPENT THE WHOLE DAY. I WAS SHOWING THEM VARIOUS ORDNANCE PLACES. IF I COULD TAKE JUST A COUPLE MINUTES HERE, I'D LIKE TO READ THE LETTER I GOT BACK. DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY, UNITED STATES ARMY CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION COMMAND, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. "MR. ROBYN ZIMMERMAN, FRIER TUCK ROAD. RESULTS OF THE U.S. ARMY CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION COMMAND PRELIMINARY INQUIRY CONCERNING THE FORMER CAMP CROFT MILITARY INSTALLATION. DEAR MR. ZIMMERMAN: THIS OFFICE HAS COMPLETED A PRELIMINARY INQUIRY CONCERNING YOUR ALLEGATIONS PERTAINING TO THEFTS OF FORMER MILITARY PROPERTY BY UNIDENTIFIED PERPETRATORS AND FOR ENVIRONMENTAL CLEAN UP EFFORTS AT THE FORMER CAMP CROFT MILITARY INSTALLATION MANAGED BY OUR CHARLESTON DISTRICT, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS." NOW, HERE WE GO. "AS WAS PERSONALLY EXPLAINED TO YOU BY SPECIAL AGENT JOHN F. DENNY, THIS PROPERTY IS NO LONGER CLASSIFIED AS U.S. GOVERNMENT PROPERTY, CONSEQUENTLY NO FURTHER INVESTIGATION OF THAT ALLEGATION WAS CONDUCTED OR WILL BE CONDUCTED BY THIS OFFICE. THE 26TH OF MARCH, 1999." AND AS FAR AS WHAT MR. DUBOSE SAYS HERE, AND AS MR. TRUELOVE SAYS, NOBODY SHOULD BE ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS GOING OUT AND LOOKING FOR ORDNANCE. BUT MR. DUBOSE WAS HERE FOR THREE YEARS. HE WAS THE TOP SERGEANT MAJOR OUT HERE. AND HE KNOWS THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF ORDNANCE SURPLUS MATERIAL THAT WAS DUMPED. AND I THINK I CAN SAY BY INDIVIDUALS AT THE UNIT LEVEL. SMALL SQUAD PLATOON LEVEL. AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, MR. BLANKENSHIP, WHAT, 20,800 AND SOME ACRES. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN IMMENSE QUANTITY OF MATERIAL. NOT TO MENTION HELICOPTERS THAT FLY OVER CONSISTENTLY WITH PODS HANGING DOWN. WE'VE CALLED EVERYBODY FROM THE PENTAGON -- I'VE CALLED SENATOR TIM HUTCHINSON OF ARKANSAS OF THE SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE. SENATOR JOSEPH LEE AND JOHN SPRATT FROM ROCK HILL IS ON THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE. AND WE HAVE PHOTOGRAPHS, AND WE HAVE WITNESSES THAT SEE THIS. YOU KNOW, WE GET TOLD THAT WE'RE SEEING THINGS.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

BRING THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS. I'D LIKE TO SEE THOSE MYSELF.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

OH, I HAVE TWO BEAUTIFUL ONES IN HERE RIGHT NOW.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

OF THE HELICOPTERS?

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

OF SOME -- BEHIND -- BURIED ---

BY MR. THOMPSON:

I'D LIKE TO SEE THE HELICOPTERS.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

OH, YOU WILL.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

ONE THING, THE LETTER THAT YOU ---

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

TENNESSEE NATIONAL GUARD IS WHERE I PERSONALLY HAD DO A SEARCH, AND THEY CAME FROM SMITHVILLE, TENNESSEE. THEY HAVE BIG LONG PODS ON THEM. FIBEROPTIC CABLES.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

AND YOU GUYS DON'T KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IT?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

NO. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

BY MR. DUBOSE:

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE?

BY MR. THOMPSON:

WHEN WAS IT DONE ---

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

THIS HAS BEEN DONE FOR FOUR YEARS, MR. THOMPSON.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

FOUR YEARS?

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

AT LEAST. THE FIRST HELICOPTER WAS SEEN BY A POSTAL LADY DOWN ON FOSTER MILL ROAD IN THE SUMMER OF 1995. THE LAST ONE WAS TWO WEEKS AGO.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

LET ME TRY TO GO THROUGH SEVERAL OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU'VE BROUGHT UP. ONE IS THE LETTER FROM THE INVESTIGATION ---

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION COMMAND.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

THAT LETTER ADDRESSES THE FACT THAT YOU WERE SAYING WEAPONS AND OTHER VALUABLES THAT HAD BELONGED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY WERE BEING REMOVED.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

YES, SIR.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

THE LETTER TELLS YOU THAT THE ARMY NO LONGER OWNS ANY OF THAT MATERIAL, AND THEREFORE IT IS NOT GOING TO INVESTIGATE WHAT'S BEING DONE WITH THE REMOVAL OF THOSE ITEMS. IT'S NOW ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. THE PARK HAS CONTROL OF THE PARK PROPERTY. AND, THEREFORE, IS NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC TO REMOVE ANY ITEMS. ANY ITEMS THERE WOULD BE THE PARK'S -- THE STATE'S. BUT ON PRIVATE PROPERTY THE WEAPONS THAT PEOPLE KEPT SAYING WERE LEFT HERE OR WHATEVER BELONG TO THE INDIVIDUAL THAT OWNS THE PROPERTY.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

CAN YOU PUT THAT WITH YOUR SIGNATURE UNDERNEATH IT FOR SOME OTHER PEOPLE.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

HE NOW HAS A LETTER.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

I GOT THE LETTER RIGHT HERE.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

IF HE'S WILLING TO SHARE THAT LETTER WITH YOU, THEN HE CAN SHARE THAT LETTER WITH YOU. WE WILL -- AND THAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE INVESTIGATION. WAS TO -- I MEAN, EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE, I'VE BEEN TOLD ABOUT ALL OF THE WEAPONS THAT HAVE BEEN HERE. AND TOLD ABOUT PEOPLE COMING IN AT NIGHT. AND HELICOPTERS FLYING OVER. LOADING UP THINGS. AND I WANTED TO ONCE AND FOR ALL DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN DETERMINING WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO THOSE ITEMS. AND THE ANSWER HAS COME BACK THROUGH FORMAL INVESTIGATION THAT NO, THOSE WEAPONS DO NOT BELONG TO THE GOVERNMENT ANYMORE. THOSE ITEMS DO NOT BELONG TO THE GOVERNMENT ANYMORE. THEY'VE BEEN ABANDONED. HE HAS A LETTER THAT SAYS THAT. HE WAS ONE OF THE -- YOU AND HE WERE ONE OF THE ONES -- HE WAS THE PRINCIPAL ONE THAT BROUGHT IT UP, AND THAT'S WHY HE WAS WRITTEN THE LETTER.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

I UNDERSTAND.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

SECOND ITEM. THE HELICOPTERS. YOU ASKED ME IF I KNOW -- I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE HELICOPTERS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING. I MEAN, I'M NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING THEY'RE DOING, AS FAR AS REMOVAL OF ORDNANCE THAT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT. I EMPHASIZE TO YOU AGAIN, I'M NOT TRYING TO HIDE ANYTHING. BUT MY PURPOSE HERE IS TO CLEAN UP UNEXPLODED ORDNANCE THAT WERE LEFT HERE AT CAMP CROFT. HELICOPTERS FLYING OVER AT NIGHT, ALTHOUGH I FIND THAT VERY INTERESTING, HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR REMOVAL EFFORT. WE ARE NOT HIRING ANY HELICOPTERS TO FLY OVER. WE'RE NOT HIRING ANY HELICOPTERS TO COME IN AND DO ORDNANCE REMOVAL. I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF IT. IF I DID, I WOULD SHARE THAT WITH YOU. BUT I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF ANYTHING DEALING WITH HELICOPTERS FLYING OVER CAMP CROFT.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

CAN YOU OR HUNTSVILLE DO A REPORT ON THAT AND FIND OUT?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

NO. BECAUSE I HAVE NO MONEY -- I HAVE NO AUTHORIZATION TO SPEND THE MONEY THAT'S IN THIS PROGRAM TO DETERMINE WHY HELICOPTERS ARE FLYING OVER CAMP CROFT.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

A TELEPHONE CALL WILL COST YOU THAT MUCH?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I HAVE NO ONE TO CALL ANY MORE THAN YOU HAVE TO CALL, AND HE HAS NO REASON TO RESPOND TO ME ANY DIFFERENTLY THAN HE WOULD RESPOND TO YOU AS A CITIZEN. I HAVE NO AUTHORITY UNDER WHICH I COULD GO -- THAT'S LIKE PEOPLE KEEP COMING TO ME AND SAYING THEY GET REJECTIONS FROM THE PENTAGON. I'LL BE MORE THAN GLAD TO FOLLOW UP ON ANY OF THAT, THAT YOU GET A REJECTION FROM -- OR INQUIRING INFORMATION FROM THE PENTAGON.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

DID YOU SAY YOU CALLED PEOPLE AT TENNESSEE NATIONAL ---

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

BUT I HAVE NO MORE AUTHORITY THAN ANYONE ELSE.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

CAN YOU PROVIDE HIS NAME?

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

YES, SIR. I KNOW THE NAME. WHAT'S BEING CONDUCTED OUT HERE IS NOT BEING CONDUCTED BY THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS. THIS IS NOT TRYING TO SOUND BIG TALKING OR ANYTHING. IT'S BEING CONDUCTED BY THE UNITED STATES DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, WHICH IS THE -- I SEE GERARD PERRY SITTING THERE WITH A GRIN ON HIS FACE AND ---

BY MR. THOMPSON:

WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

I KNOW. BUT DON'T YOU THINK IT'S SOMEWHAT IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT ---

BY MR. THOMPSON:

PROVIDE THE INFORMATION SO WE CAN LOOK INTO IT.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

OKAY.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

IF IT'S THAT IMPORTANT, WE SHOULD LOOK INTO IT. BUT WE DON'T HAVE ANY MONEY.

BY MS. MCKINNEY:

EXCUSE ME, CAN WE STOP FOR A MINUTE. GO AHEAD.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

THERE IS TWO OPERATIONS. ONE OF THEM IS NAMED IS OPERATION CHEROKEE CEDAR. THAT INVOLVES A DIA INVESTIGATION IN CAMP CROFT. THE OTHER ONE IS OPERATION PALMETTO STUTTGART. THAT'S THE NAME OF IT. PALMETTO, THE STATE, STUTTGART, GERMANY, IF YOU CAN FIGURE THAT OUT. IT HAS TO DO WITH SOMETHING ON MR. MILLIKEN'S HUNT CLUB PROPERTY. WHERE IF ANYBODY RIDES DOWN AND LOOKS AT THAT GREAT BIG -- ALONG THERE, I THINK THAT'S WHERE MR. -- WHAT WAS THAT POLITICIAN'S NAME, MR. DUBOSE? JAMES BYRNES?

BY MR. DUBOSE:

JIMMY BYRNES.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

DIDN'T HE STAY THERE?

BY MR. DUBOSE:

YEAH, ONE OF YOUR FINE PEOPLE.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

AND WAIT A MINUTE. MR. CARL VINCENT AND MORENTHAL AND ABOUT HALF OF THE UNITED STATES CABINET STAYS THERE. THEY NEVER CLEAN ANYTHING. FROM 28 CARS OF GERMAN GOLD BULLION THAT GOT STOLEN FROM -- I DON'T CARE HOW OUTLANDISH YOU THINK THAT SOUNDS.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW UP WITH ONE MORE THING. I MEAN, THE RAB, IN ITS CURRENT SETTING, IS TO ADVISE THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS ON ITS ORDNANCE REMOVAL PROJECT. ANYTHING THAT THE RAB WISHES TO TAKE ON AS FAR AS INVESTIGATING OR FOLLOWING UP ON ANY ITEMS THAT THE PUBLIC IS INTERESTED IN, THAT'S OBVIOUSLY UP TO THE RAB. THEY VOLUNTEER. THEY DON'T GET PAID TO COME HERE AND SIT AND LISTEN TO ME OR TO ANYONE ELSE. SO THAT'S ENTIRELY UP TO THE RAB AS FAR AS WHAT IT WOULD LIKE TO TAKE UP ON THAT -- UNDER THEIR OWN AUTHORITY OR WHATEVER. BUT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS ASKED THE RAB MEMBERS TO ADVISE THEM AND GIVE THEM INPUT AS FAR AS THE ORDNANCE REMOVAL PROJECTS. AND THAT'S WHAT WE WILL BE LIMITING OUR REQUESTS FROM THEM AND INFORMATION FROM THEM.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

ONE FAST QUESTION. COULD I HAVE A RAISE OF HANDS OF ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT'S WENT DOWN TO THE LIBRARY AND READ ALL THE INFORMATION IN THE BOOKS.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

JIM, DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE ON NOW WITH THE SECOND PART OF THE PRESENTATION.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I KNOW WE -- BUT I THINK MR. LANCASTER HAD ONE MORE THING I THINK HE WANTED TO ADD. AND I DON'T WANT TO ---

BY MR. LANCASTER:

I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT DIGGING UP ORDNANCE IS RISKY BUSINESS. IT'S PRETTY RISKY. BUT HENDERSON ROAD GOT CLEANED UP ON ACCOUNT OF THAT. AND WEDGEWOOD WILL BE CLEANED UP. WHERE THE MINES ARE AT IN CAMP CROFT, IT WILL DEFINITELY BE CLEANED UP. THERE WON'T BE NO ARCHIVE SEARCH OR NOTHING. THAT STUFF WILL BE TOOK OUT OF THERE NOW. BECAUSE IT'S THERE.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

YES, SIR. BUT IF THIS IS AN AREA THAT YOU HAD SHOWN US, I WOULD ARGUE WITH YOU THAT WE WOULD HAVE CLEANED THAT AREA ANYWAY. BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE COME IN THERE AND SAMPLED THAT AREA. AND FOUND THAT THERE WERE THINGS THERE. NOW, WHETHER OR NOT THE FACT THAT SOME WERE UNCOVERED BY PRIVATE CITIZENS, RIGHT NOW WE'VE LOOKED AT WHAT WAS -- THE LAND MINES THAT WERE RECOVERED. AND ---

BY MR. LANCASTER:

I HAVE TWO FRIENDS THAT WAS BLOWED UP, UP THERE MESSING WITH THAT STUFF. THAT'S HOW I KNOWED IT WAS THERE.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

YOU HAVE TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO WERE BLOWN UP FROM ORDNANCE HERE AT CAMP CROFT?

BY MR. THOMPSON:

1945.

BY MR. LANCASTER:

NO. JOHNNY FEW WAS ONE OF THEM.

BY MR. THOMPSON:

WHO?

BY MR. LANCASTER:

JOHNNY FEW. THE BOY THAT LIVED UP HERE IN FRONT OF THE ---

BY MR. THOMPSON:

THERE'S NO RECORD OF IT, IS THERE?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I'VE NEVER SEEN ---

BY MR. LANCASTER:

IT DIDN'T KILL HIM, BUT IT SKINNED HIM ALL TO PIECES.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

IT DIDN'T KILL HIM.

BY MR. LANCASTER:

JOHNNY FEW, AND JAMES LEE WAS THE OTHER ONE.

BY MR. OSBORNE:

IF WE'VE GOT TO GO BACK INTO CAMP CROFT STATE PARK AGAIN, LET'S CLOSE IT BACK UP, PERIOD. RIGHT NOW BEFORE SOMEBODY GETS KILLED. BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT IT ON YOUR EECA -- YOU HAVE AREAS DOWN THERE THAT ARE BAD. LAST TIME WE HAD AREAS THAT WAS BAD AND STILL WASN'T CLEANED UP. I MAKE A MOTION YOU CLOSE CAMP CROFT STATE PARK.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

I SECOND THAT MOTION. I THINK IT SHOULD BE CLOSED ---

BY MR. THOMPSON:

YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE MOTIONS. YOU'RE NOT ON THE BOARD.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I WOULD LIKE -- PRIOR TO ANY MOTIONS BEING MADE, I'D LIKE TO RESPOND TO THAT. THERE WAS NOT AN AREA THAT HAD BEEN IDENTIFIED THAT WE HAVE SAID WE HAVE CLEANED UP IN THE CAMP, THAT ANYONE IS SAYING HAS NOT BEEN CLEANED. THE ARTICLE IN THE PAPER, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ALL WAS SAID. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THE ARTICLE GOT -- IS WRITTEN THE WAY IT IS. BUT THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS TAKES THE POSITION THAT ALL OF THE AREAS THAT WE HAVE CLEANED UP ARE CLEAN. NOW, THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL AREAS WE HAVE IDENTIFIED, AND WE'VE IDENTIFIED THOSE ON THE MAP, THAT WE PLAN TO GO BACK AND DO SOME ADDITIONAL -- SOME CLEAN UP. BUT THOSE ARE NOT AREAS THAT WE HAD CLEANED BEFORE.

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

BUT TO WHAT EXTENT, MR. TRUELOVE?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

TO WHAT EXTENT?

BY MR. ZIMMERMAN:

YES.

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

IT DEPENDS ON WHAT THE USE WAS FOR THAT. WE DID CLEAN UP IN THE CAMP AREA DOWN TO FOUR FEET. IT WAS A FOR USE CLEAN UP -- CLEARANCE.

BY MR. LANCASTER:

ARE YOU SAYING THERE'S NOTHING IN THE PICNIC AREA?

BY MR. TRUELOVE:

I SAID THE AREAS THAT WE'RE CLEANING, ONE OF THE AREAS TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE ---

BY MR. THOMPSON: