00001

01 CAMP CROFT RESTORATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING

01 *******************************************************

02 PLACE: SC School for the Deaf and the Blind

03 Swearingen Conference Center

04 DATE: Tuesday, March 10, 1998

05 TIME: 7:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

06 PRESENTATION

06 GIVEN BY: Jim Truelove

07 Project Manager

07 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

08 Charleston District

09 Greg Parsons

09 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

10 Huntsville District

11 BOARD MEMBERS

11 PRESENT: David Mullinax, Chair

12 Joseph L. Crissinger

12 Ed Y. Hall

13 Gary Hayes

13 William B. Littlejohn, Jr.

14 W. Brownlee Lowry

14 Conley McIntyre, Sr.

15 George D. Mullinax

15 Gerard Perry

16 Robert W. Powell, Jr.

16 Clary H. Smith

17 Sanford N. Smith

17 Stonewall J. Stewart, Jr.

18 Sherry Wheeler

18 Darwin J. Wilson

19 BOARD MEMBER

19 NOT PRESENT: James B. Thompson

20 ALSO PRESENT: Suzy Cantor-McKinney

21 Project Manager

21 Zapata Engineering, P.A.

22 1100 Kenilworth Avenue, Suite 104

22 Charlotte, North Carolina 28204

23 REPORTED BY: Sandy Satterwhite Reporting

24 P.O. Box 742

24 Roebuck, South Carolina 29376

25 (864)574-1455

00002

01 INDEX

02 Welcome by Mr. David Mullinax. . . . . . . . . . . 3

03 Introduction of New RAB Members. . . . . . . . . . 3

04 Review of By-Laws. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

05 Old Business . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13

06 Phase II EE/CA Engineering Design Report . . . . . 13

07 Presentation of Ordnance . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18

08 Remediation of OOU6. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24

09 Old Business . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25

10 New Business . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31

11 Closing Remarks. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36

12 Certificate of Reporter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38

00003

01 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

02 I'd like to welcome everybody to the March

03 meeting of the Camp Croft Restoration Advisory Board.

04 I'd like to welcome our new members. There will be a

05 formal introduction of them in just a few minutes, and

06 at this time, I'll have some comments here in a

07 minute, but I'll turn it over to Jim Truelove.

08 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

09 Good evening. I thought I'd just read out the

10 names, and, if you would, identify yourselves so that

11 I can start learning faces. I'm new. My name is Jim

12 Truelove. I've been to the last couple of RAB

13 meetings. I've taken Wayne's place with the Corps of

14 Engineers.

15 The new members are Chris Crissinger.

16 BY MR. CRISSINGER:

17 Yes.

18 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

19 Ed Hall, Gary Hayes. Now, somebody told me you

20 go by Bubba. Bubba Littlejohn.

21 BY DR. LITTLEJOHN:

22 Every board has got to have one.

23 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

24 Dr. Lowry, Conley McIntyre. It doesn't look

25 like he's here.

00004

01 BY DR. LOWRY:

02 He's supposed to be sitting right here.

03 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

04 Okay. Dave Mullinax, George Mullinax, Gerry

05 Perry, Dr. Powell, Clary Smith, Sanford Smith,

06 Stonewall Stewart, James Thompson. He's absent

07 tonight. Sherry Wheeler and Darwin Wilson.

08 Okay. What we've done is prepare, mostly for

09 the new members and also for the other members to help

10 show what we've done and where we are, a little

11 booklet. Suzy McKinney will just kind of briefly give

12 a description of what's in it so it will help you find

13 some things.

14 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

15 Good evening. I'm Suzy McKinney. I'm with

16 Zapata Engineering, and for those of you who are new

17 this evening, Zapata Engineering is out of Charlotte,

18 North Carolina, and we provide all the logistical

19 support to the RAB. We support the Board in any way

20 that they need as far as meeting facilities, as this

21 evening, and for the preparation of correspondence

22 we've prepared two -- I guess it's been two

23 resolutions that have gone out on behalf of the Board

24 supporting actions for the Corps.

25 So during the course of these meetings or in

00005

01 between these meetings, if anyone needs to get in

02 contact with me, feel free to do so. If they need to

03 get in contact with the Corps and don't have that

04 access, again, feel free to contact me and I'll work

05 to coordinate that. We do have a toll free number for

06 the benefit of the Board.

07 I'd like to quickly walk through the notebook.

08 We won't spend much time on this. We prepared

09 Background in the notebook, and that starts with a

10 list of acronyms and abbreviations to help you when

11 you're reviewing the technical documents or listening

12 to some of the presentations if you're not familiar

13 with some of the terms.

14 We then have a very brief history of the camp

15 and a map that illustrates some of the training areas.

16 This project is being developed under the

17 DERP-FUDS Program, and there's a brief explanation of

18 the objectives of that program. We talk about the

19 current uses of the former camp and what it is today.

20 Then we have a couple of pages that describe the

21 removal actions, what's been found, what reports have

22 been prepared and kind of brings everyone up to date

23 with where we are on the status of the project.

24 Following that discussion is a Gantt chart that

25 takes several of the key items, the activities and

00006

01 reports and the time frames in which they either were

02 prepared or anticipated to be prepared for future

03 activities.

04 There are then two color maps that represent the

05 OOU ordnance units identified in the Phase I EE/CA

06 that was prepared in '95, and the units which we will

07 discuss tonight in the final EE/CA for the Phase II

08 actions, and that report is dated 1997.

09 We then have some graphics that illustrate the

10 type of ordnance that have been found at the camp, and

11 we will have a presentation on that later this

12 evening, as well as some information that describes

13 the magnetometer sweeps, what they look like.

14 There's a photograph. There's a photograph of how the

15 grids were set for preparing those sweeps and then

16 also a photograph of the ordnance that has been found.

17 You will then find some tables and a brief

18 discussion that came out of this most recent EE/CA for

19 the units, what's been found -- not what's been found

20 -- the anomalies that have been detected during

21 testing and the recommended actions for each of those

22 areas, and those will be further discussed later this

23 evening.

24 You then have a discussion on community

25 involvement through the Restoration Advisory Board and

00007

01 what the efforts of the Board have accomplished over

02 the past two years. This is now our third year of

03 this effort in community relations.

04 You then have a copy of the By-Laws, and I'll

05 come back to those after we finish reviewing the

06 notebook, and we'll briefly run through the

07 responsibilities of the Board as stated in the

08 By-Laws.

09 You have copies of the two resolutions that have

10 been prepared and submitted. And the last page before

11 your Contacts tab is Reporting, what to do if you find

12 ordnance and the phone numbers to contact. Contact

13 911.

14 The Contacts tab, behind that you will find a

15 list of the Corps of Engineers' contacts and phone

16 numbers, how to contact myself, how to contact the

17 Camp Croft web site on the internet, and there's a

18 list of numbers and addresses for each of the Board

19 members, so you have access to contact each of

20 yourselves if the need arises.

21 There's a list of References of the significant

22 documents that are in the library, and Patti and I

23 were at the library this afternoon and double checked

24 this list. I need to add a few that are in the

25 library that are not on this list, as well as I have

00008

01 three items on this list that have not been submitted

02 to the library.

03 So we'll get those documents in within the next

04 three or four weeks. And when I send out the meeting

05 summary, I will send you an updated list of the items

06 that are in the library. Those are maintained in the

07 reference department on the second floor in the

08 Kennedy room, and most of these documents are held

09 within what they call the vault. So if you ever want

10 access to those, they are open to the public, but they

11 will escort you in to look at these.

12 There are copies of, I think, most of the

13 newspaper articles that I've been able to review over

14 the past two years. I try to keep that up to date.

15 There's some lined paper for taking notes, and

16 at the back of the notebook we have the OE Project

17 Flow, the Ordnance and Explosive Project Flow which

18 was prepared by the Corps of Engineers, and we revised

19 that to make it a little bit more specific to this

20 project.

21 This just outlines the superfund process for

22 identifying ordnance sites, time critical removal

23 actions, preliminary assessments to report

24 preparation. It follows through the process of

25 identifying a site and then ultimate remediation on

00009

01 that site.

02 Behind that is the safety policy on real

03 property containing ordnance and explosives for your

04 reference.

05 So real quickly let's walk through the By-Laws

06 for the benefit of the new members.

07 The first two pages are a brief introduction.

08 So if we can just turn to the third page, Camp Croft

09 Restoration Advisory Board By-Laws.

10 I see several new faces in the audience. I'd

11 like to read the first paragraph, the Mission

12 Statement.

13 BY DR. LOWRY:

14 What section?

15 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

16 We're back under the tab Background about

17 halfway through.

18 "The mission of the Camp Croft RAB is to provide

19 a forum through which the local communities, the U.S.

20 Army Corps of Engineers, and the regulatory agencies

21 work together in an atmosphere that encourages

22 discussion and exchange of information, and educates

23 the public on the investigation and removal of

24 ordnance and explosives (OE) at the former Camp Croft.

25 The RAB will review, comment, and advise the U.S. Army

00010

01 Corps of Engineers, Charleston District on

02 site-related documents, on the investigations, and the

03 proposed removal activities. All decisions regarding

04 OE removal activities are solely the authority of the

05 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. Membership on the RAB

06 does not imply or infer any liability for incidents

07 related to removal activities."

08 It then reviews the responsibilities of the

09 Board to hold regularly scheduled meetings, to review

10 Corps documents.

11 We then discuss the membership. That the

12 membership of this Board reflects diverse community

13 interests. The Board will serve a two year term and

14 may submit application to serve a subsequent two year

15 term.

16 On page three, we do have a set of procedures

17 that apply to the Board. RAB members shall have one

18 vote at the Board meetings. Each RAB member is not to

19 act individually in discussions and comments. You're

20 acting as a group.

21 Regular on time attendance is a requirement for

22 continued membership. We will follow a process

23 similar to Robert's Rules of Order in conducting the

24 meetings.

25 These meetings are open to the public and public

00011

01 participation is encouraged, and we do call and allow

02 for old business and new business on our agenda, so we

03 encourage all of you to participate as well.

04 Special committees may be established as needed.

05 A special meeting may be called as needed by the

06 Chair.

07 Members are prohibited from publicly

08 representing opinions, their own opinions, concerning

09 RAB members as views of the Board.

10 Excuse me. Let me read that one again.

11 "RAB community members are prohibited from

12 publicly representing their opinions concerning RAB

13 matters as the views of the RAB."

14 If you are unable to participate fully, we

15 request a written resignation.

16 A member may be removed from the Board by a

17 majority vote if it is determined that the actions of

18 the individual are not in the best interest of the

19 RAB.

20 In the event of a dispute, resolution will be

21 raised to the Corps of Engineers.

22 And a quorum must be in attendance before a

23 meeting can be held. A quorum is defined as 25

24 percent of the Board members.

25 We do have a Chair. The Chair will serve a one

00012

01 year term, and, as a Board, we will probably need to

02 re-evaluate how the language is written under Section

03 V since our timing has been shifted. Dave will serve

04 as Chair today, and at our upcoming meeting we will

05 take that opportunity to take nominations and solicit

06 interest for the next Chair for the upcoming year.

07 We have an Army Facilitator, Jim Truelove, and

08 I think the rest of this just reviews the general

09 responsibilities of attendance and participation.

10 Proposed amendments can be changed to this

11 By-Laws by three-fourths majority of a quorum. So any

12 revisions to the By-Laws, if you would like to propose

13 that, they can be voted on.

14 Any questions?

15 BY DR. POWELL:

16 Suzy, how often are we going to be meeting?

17 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

18 We'll meet quarterly, three months, unless we

19 have significant activity, and you all decide that you

20 would like to meet more frequently.

21 Anything else?

22 (NO RESPONSE)

23 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

24 Okay. Jim, I'll turn it back over to you.

25 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

00013

01 Are there any questions so far?

02 (NO RESPONSE)

03 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

04 If not, then I'll turn it back over to David.

05 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

06 Okay. Under the old business part I just want

07 to review a few things that we've done in the past.

08 If you do have questions, I ask that you hold them

09 until the end of the presentation, unless the

10 presenter responds to address your question.

11 In consideration of Mr. Truelove, understand

12 that he is new to the project. So if any

13 correspondence has been made to the previous project

14 manager, understand that he may not be aware of it.

15 So that we'll ask anything in the past be addressed in

16 writing to him so that he'll have time to research it

17 and then study it.

18 Okay. Mr. Truelove, I think that's all I have.

19 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

20 Okay. To try to bring people up to speed, the

21 new members and everything and the people that haven't

22 been involved up to this point, we were going to make

23 a presentation of the last -- the Phase II EE/CA.

24 Most of you saw this last time. At that time

25 the EE/CA was out for public comments. Since then, it

00014

01 has gone final, but there were no major comments made

02 so what you saw at the last presentation is basically

03 the same thing that we have now.

04 The purpose of the Phase II EE/CA was to further

05 investigate some of the areas that have been

06 identified previously.

07 (BRIEF INTERRUPTION TO MOVE MAP)

08 BY MR. TRUELOVE:

09 As I said, the purpose of the Phase II EE/CA was

10 to further investigate some of the areas that have

11 been identified previously in the Phase I EE/CA, but

12 have not necessarily had the degree of investigation

13 that we thought was necessary.

14 We went back and did a supplementary search of

15 the archives, and based on that archive search, we

16 ended up identifying some more areas, and this is what

17 the process was trying to do is to help group the

18 common sites, simplify the ordnance analysis and come

19 up with the criteria and see if there was some more

20 investigation. So based on that, we went in and did

21 some sampling.

22 These were the areas of investigation, ordnance

23 areas that we did further investigation on.

24 Most of you know the area better than I do.

25 Area 3 is up in Wedgewood. Area 9 is split up into

00015

01 several areas. A few of them, A, B, C, D and E -- A,

02 B, C, D and E are all inside the park. There were

03 also some more small arms areas that were outside the

04 park, and so they were grouped into F, G and H. F, G

05 and H (indicating on map).

06 Unit 10 was inside the park. 11 was some more

07 of those small areas outside the park. And you can

08 come look at this. There is also, for the

09 RAB members, there is a small map in the book that has

10 this same information on it.

11 And, again, 12 was also some unexploded ordnance

12 areas outside the park.

13 Now what we want to do, based on the sampling

14 that we've done, there were -- each one of the areas

15 could be assigned the risk reduction alternative.

16 This would be the action that we would take based on

17 what was found for that area.

18 Of course, if it's limited and nothing was

19 there, just small arms or miscellaneous little stuff

20 -- no further action, institutional controls, surface

21 clearance and clearance for use. So those are the

22 alternatives.

23 Here's what was recommended by the EE/CA and

24 what we will be pursuing in Phase III. Phase

25 III, again, was the one that was up in Wedgewood. And

00016

01 the recommendation there and the one we will be

02 pursuing will be clearance for use.

03 The cost estimate that we put for the expanded

04 area for Unit 3 is estimated at $3,000,000. So we're

05 going to go -- we've got to go find the money and come

06 in and do that cleanup.

07 Also, if you'll look, some of this same

08 information is in your notebook as well, so you have

09 that and you can take it with you.

10 Unit 9 was -- several of the areas inside the

11 park and three on the outside, if you remember

12 correctly, and they were all small arms areas. We

13 didn't find much and we didn't expect to find when we

14 did our sampling. It really present minimal hazard on

15 what you do find. Mostly shell -- the shell casings

16 and things, not anything of any particular big danger.

17 So the action here is no further action -- I mean,

18 recommended action in the EE/CA is no further action.

19 Area 10 were grenades and mortar areas. A, B, C

20 and D were inside the park, and there we recommended

21 surface clearance. And with the surface clearance it

22 would be approximately $700,000 as the current

23 estimate.

24 11, A, B, C and D, the grenade and mortar areas

25 outside the park, it would be clearance for use

00017

01 because of the park. It has control over those areas,

02 and those are the areas that are going to be used.

03 When you get outside of the park, there's a lot more

04 of a chance that the area is going to be used for

05 other things. So this one is a clearance for use.

06 This one is going to be approximately $700,000.

07 Area 12, again, is outside the park. A, B and

08 C. These areas are planning to be -- or the proposal

09 is for clearance for use and the cost, $2,600,000.

10 Here's -- based on what we've done in the Phase

11 II EE/CA, and I don't know if you can see it. The

12 total of what the proposed clearance in the Phase

13 II EE/CA is $7,000,000.

14 Now we'll be going out trying to seek the money

15 to do this and do the follow-up actions necessary to

16 do the cleanup actions on it and prioritize them to

17 see what actions we want to do and we're looking for

18 your input to help us do that.

19 If anyone wants to come up after the meeting,

20 I'll be happy to talk to them about the individual

21 areas and where we are and what the proposals are.

22 Okay. I'll turn it back over to David.

23 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

24 Okay. I have a presentation of ordnance

25 from ---

00018

01 BY MS. MCKINNEY:

02 Greg Parsons.

03 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

04 --- Greg Parsons from the Huntsville office in

05 the Corps of Engineers.

06 So if you would, we'll direct our attention over

07 to Greg over on the other side.

08 BY MR. PARSONS:

09 My name is Greg Parsons. I'm the ordnance

10 safety specialist out of Huntsville, and I was asked

11 to come here and give you a general overview of some

12 of the ordnance we found out at Camp Croft and outside

13 the boundaries of Camp Croft.

14 Some of these items are readily identifiable and

15 some of them aren't. I like you to keep in mind, the

16 people who have property in the area, that if you come

17 across something on your property and you don't

18 recognize it -- I'll pass this around. This is a Mk

19 II hand grenade for practice, but a lot of you may not

20 be able to -- or really identify it if you were to see

21 it in the ground. So I'd like you to keep that in

22 mind.

23 If you need -- if you find something like that,

24 I'd like you to contact your local law enforcement

25 agency, 911. The Spartanburg County Sheriff's office

00019

01 has it's own arms explosive deputy. He's right here.

02 Rick Renna. This is Rick Renna. He's Army trained.

03 We all go to the same school, marine corp trained arms

04 explosive technician.

05 Okay. Some of these items that we found out

06 here in the park area at the equestrian site -- we

07 were at the equestrian site.

08 BY MR. LANCASTER:

09 Is that in --- (inaudible).

10 BY MR. PARSONS:

11 I believe it is, yeah.

12 We uncovered several 60 millimeter high

13 explosive ordnance or mortars. I believe it was just

14 under the surface. We also found some -- and I don't

15 have a 81 millimeter, but it looks similar to this,

16 except it's this diameter, 81 millimeter ordnance.

17 BY MR. JOHNSON:

18 All -- all the things are empty, ain't it?

19 BY MR. PARSONS:

20 No. Well, these up here?

21 BY MR. JOHNSON:

22 These are not alive, is it?

23 BY MR. PARSONS:

24 These up here are fine, yeah. No, they frown on

25 us bringing live ones in and around the public.

00020

01 Dr. Lowry's property has several of these on it.

02 This is 105 millimeter either illumination or smoke

03 round. They also come in HE.

04 If you have any of these at home, you might want

05 to call your local law enforcement agency and have Mr.

06 Renna come out and look at it and make sure it's not

07 high explosive and it's empty and non-hazardous.

08 They fired these out there. These are 75

09 millimeter HEs or this happens to be a shot round, but

10 a 75 millimeter HE looks the same without the fuse on

11 the end. These are -- this portion right here is the

12 fuses. There are several hundred of them, so I won't

13 go over them.

14 This is also a mortar. This is called a 4.2 or

15 107 millimeter.

16 I'd like to stress the importance of safety with

17 these things. Some of them can be very, very

18 dangerous. If you have any or see anything, make sure

19 you call your local law enforcement, 911. If you say

20 it's a piece of ordnance or a projectile that looks

21 like a bomb, Mr. Renna there will be more than happy

22 to come out and look at it for you.

23 Do you have any questions?

24 BY MR. HALL:

25 What are you all doing? Do you blow them in

00021

01 place or what?

02 BY MR. PARSONS:

03 The Corps of Engineers has a policy to blow in

04 place if it's fused. The military on inside has a

05 procedure called render safety procedures. It depends

06 on the fuse. With the contractors and being --

07 anymore, we don't do that. We just blow them in

08 place.

09 BY MR. LANCASTER:

10 Do you check them? Are there any of those out

11 there?

12 BY MR. PARSONS:

13 There probably are -- I can't say that there

14 aren't, but ---

15 BY MR. LANCASTER:

16 I gave them to the Corps.

17 BY MR. PARSONS:

18 3.5s or 2.36s?

19 BY MR. LANCASTER:

20 About the size like the one on the table.

21 BY MR. PARSONS:

22 This one here?

23 BY MR. LANCASTER:

24 About that size.

25 BY MR. PARSONS:

00022

01 2.36.

02 BY MR. LANCASTER:

03 About this long.