00001

01 CAMP CROFT RESTORATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING

01 *******************************************************

02 PLACE: SC School for the Deaf and the Blind

03 Swearingen Conference Center

04 DATE: Tuesday, March 11, 1997

05 TIME: 7:05 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.

06 PRESENTATIONS

06 GIVEN BY: Wayne Bogan

07 Project Manager

07 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers

08 Charleston District

09 BOARD MEMBERS

09 PRESENT: David Mullinax, Chair

10 Norma Borkowski

10 Kathy Burrell

11 Gary Hayes

11 John E. Keith

12 William Littlejohn, Jr.

12 W. Brownlee Lowry

13 George D. Mullinax

13 Harold D. Osborne

14 Gerard Perry

14 Robert W. Powell, Jr.

15 Clary H. Smith

15 James B. Thompson

16 Gerald T. Thurmond

16 Sherry Wheeler

17 BOARD MEMBERS

18 NOT PRESENT: Fritz Hamer

18 Dot Sloan

19 Sanford N. Smith

19 Darwin Wilson

20 ALSO PRESENT: Suzy McKinney

21 Zapata Engineering, P.A.

21 1100 Kenilworth Avenue, Suite 104

22 Charlotte, North Carolina 28204

23 REPORTED BY: Sandy Satterwhite Reporting

23 P.O. Box 742

24 Roebuck, South Carolina 29376

24 (864)574-1455

00002

01 INDEX

02 Welcome by Mr. David Mullinax. . . . . . . . . . . . 3

03 Status of Removal Activities by Mr. Wayne Bogan. . . 3

04 Questions and Answers. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .11

05 New Business by Mr. David Mullinax . . . . . . . . .60

06 Closing Remarks by Mr. David Mullinax. . . . . . . .64

07 Certificate of Reporter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .65

00003

01 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

02 I like to welcome everybody to the March meeting

03 of the Camp Croft Restoration Advisory Board. I

04 remind everybody, again, we'd like you to hold your

05 questions until the end of the presentation, and at

06 that time the presenter will ask the questions from

07 the audience and the Board.

08 At this time we'll move on the agenda to Mr.

09 Wayne Bogan on the status of the removal activities.

10 BY MR. BOGAN:

11 Good evening. Thanks for coming back. The

12 first item on the agenda is the sampling on Mr.

13 Coleman's property.

14 We've actually done an additional sampling grid

15 since we sent out the last status report. The first

16 sampling where we put in the only thing that we found

17 was the tea kettle, some barbwire and I think a power

18 blade, but afterwards, Mr. Coleman wasn't totally sure

19 that we put the grid in.

20 Now we put it where he wanted it, but he wasn't

21 totally sure that that was exactly where the potential

22 site was. We've actually gone back in this morning

23 put in another grid, sampled again, and they didn't

24 run into anything. The only thing they came close to

25 was a 16 inch water main or a pipe going through that

00004

01 area.

02 So even we put in two grids 100 foot by 100

03 foot, they didn't find anything related to munitions,

04 chemicals, etcetera on his property. Mr. and Ms.

05 Coleman were quite pleased to find that out.

06 The second item is reimbursement for local

07 businesses. As we mentioned in the status reports,

08 what we've done is we've sent a letter up to our

09 headquarters, which then went up to the Department of

10 Army level requesting that if we have to shut down

11 somebody's business, that we have the authority to pay

12 them the operating expenses and also looking at a

13 potential profit that they might lose. The primary

14 example was when we're on Dr. Lowry's property, a lot

15 of the areas we needed to work in were right next to

16 his landfill.

17 Based on our safety distances, there's a

18 potential that we'd have to shut down his landfill.

19 It might be for a couple of days or it might be for

20 some six months, and it would be unfair for him to

21 come in and shut down his landfill and lose all that

22 money for his operating expenses, for his employees,

23 etcetera and losing that profit.

24 To this date we have not received any

25 information back as to whether or not the Department

00005

01 of Defense is going to approve that authority for us

02 to be able to do that, so we're trying to work around

03 it at the moment.

04 The areas cleared. I'm going to start first

05 with Area 2, 00U2 with inside the State Park. To

06 date, they've found 55 mortars on the surface within

07 sampling grids.

08 We added some additional work in there on some

09 proposed horse trails for the State Park. Initially,

10 the plan called for us to clean up 5,000 feet of horse

11 trails that we thought was inside of the area.

12 Come to find out that only about 500 feet of

13 horse trails were actually within the area. The State

14 Park had some proposed horse trails they wanted to put

15 through there, so we've taken the additional footage

16 that we didn't use and applied that to the future

17 horse trails, and they've gone through and started

18 cleaning those. So when the Park starts the trails,

19 then they won't have any problems.

20 Along the horse trails, which is a subsurface

21 clearance, they're going down to two -- down to two

22 feet, out to ten feet on either side. They have found

23 six 60 millimeter mortars and two 81 millimeter

24 mortars below the surface.

25 BY MR. POWELL:

00006

01 Live?

02 BY MR. BOGAN:

03 Yes, sir, everything is live, so they're getting

04 those and getting them out of the way; and, of course,

05 this is an area that we've already surface cleared,

06 and they found some mortars near that, not necessarily

07 on the trail.

08 Of course, during the surface clearance, they

09 don't do any digging, so they didn't know what was

10 underneath the trail.

11 The next one is Area 3, which we've just started

12 in Wedgewood. This is a follow-up to the sampling did

13 as part of the Engineering Evaluation. During the

14 sampling, they didn't find anything, but they found

15 two practice grenades and one portion of a rocket tail

16 fin.

17 During the removal, which is under HFA's

18 contract, where they've been working in the State

19 Park, they found 15 practice grenades; and in the past

20 couple of days they've found five live grenades, which

21 was a surprise to us.

22 That will end up, and I will address this in a

23 minute, probably changing some of our policy of how

24 we're going to look at the Wedgewood area.

25 If all they were finding was practice grenades

00007

01 during the sampling and on Ms. Pike's property, then

02 there wasn't a great need for us to come back in and

03 do a total removal for the whole area.

04 Now that we've found live grenades, we're

05 looking at coming in and talking with the property

06 owners and seeing about doing a clearance for all the

07 property on there just to make sure. All right.

08 All right. So we didn't expect it, and so if we

09 didn't expect it there, there's a chance, always, that

10 we might find it someplace else, so we're going to try

11 and address that.

12 On Area 6, OOU6, which is primarily Dr. Lowry's

13 property and several other adjacent properties, we've

14 had Parsons Engineering doing the sampling on Dr.

15 Lowry's property.

16 A few of the landowners didn't give us right of

17 entry. Milliken did not give us right of entry. Not

18 to point out any of those, but just saying that some

19 of the others did not want to.

20 While they were there and doing the sampling

21 grids, they found 14 105 millimeter illumination

22 canisters, canisters that had gone up and a flare came

23 out and the metal just fell to the ground.

24 But in one area, which is adjacent to the

25 proposed pond that Dr. Lowry's building, they found a

00008

01 live 105 millimeter howitzer shell -- howitzer round.

02 Excuse me.

03 What we're trying to do in response to that is

04 Dr. Lowry has progress -- work in progress on the

05 pond, so we're going do what we call construction

06 support for his pond.

07 It took us a little work, but I finally got it

08 set up, and I don't have the contract awarded yet, but

09 we're going to watch -- we're going to come in and do

10 probably a four foot clearance on the fish pond area

11 and have somebody there standing by to do any

12 potential clearance afterwards as this construction

13 equipment comes in and does the work to build the

14 pond.

15 This is one of those where we've said that if

16 people are building or doing construction and run up

17 on to an ordnance siting, then we'll try to get

18 somebody in there to do the cleanup. We had a little

19 difficulty, initially, when I started talking to

20 people about this contract, but we turned it around

21 and got it set up so they're working on a contract now

22 to get FHA to extend the work they're doing at the

23 moment, and then we run over to Area 6 for the

24 property there.

25 I believe that's probably it. Now we'll cover,

00009

01 also, the current work efforts. Parsons Engineering

02 has already finished their sampling on Area 6. ESC,

03 which is the contractor doing the Engineering

04 Evaluation Cost Analysis, is looking to finish up

05 around the 20th of this month, and FHA, on their

06 current contract, is going to finish up around the

07 15th of this month clearing OOU3, Ms. Pike's property,

08 and Area 2 within the State Park.

09 Of course, they will extend on if we should have

10 a contract set up, hopefully by tomorrow, for them to

11 go over to Dr. Lowry's property to the fish pond.

12 I'm still trying to work it -- work it out so

13 that we can go ahead and do some work in Grid 87 on --

14 in Area 6. Grid 87 was a previously sampled site. We

15 know we found contamination. There was no shrapnel,

16 but there were some other items. The problem we ran

17 into, and this is where we come into the potential

18 shutdown for Dr. Lowry's landfill, was that it's right

19 adjacent to the landfills and covers at least part of

20 the road going into the landfill.

21 It's going to be kind of difficult to do some

22 work there without impacting the landfill, which is

23 one of the reasons we're trying to reimbursements for

24 any of the money they lose for the landfill being shut

25 down.

00010

01 Once the contractors finish up the work for --

02 or -- since Parsons has moved out, ESC has finished

03 the sampling for the Engineering Evaluation, and

04 they've got their reports due around June and July,

05 we'll take those reports. I'll have to have a public

06 meeting for the Engineering Evaluation of what they

07 found, and I'll tell you just briefly what they found

08 during that, and then we'll come forward with the

09 areas where we have found ammunition and do the

10 cleanup on those additional areas.

11 When ESC has been out doing the sampling on the

12 various sites, and these are all the yellow dots and

13 red polygons on the Supplemental Archive Search Report

14 map, they have found 28 items so far. All those items

15 have been around Danger Area 1, Area A32, which is on

16 the edge of Dairy Ridge Road next to 295.

17 There have been some other small items,

18 primarily just scrap, here and there that's been found

19 on other sites that we've sampled. The sites that

20 we're looking at at the moment are those on the very

21 south end of what was the former Camp Croft.

22 They've been finding things there, such as small

23 arms, bullets here and there, clips or pieces of

24 clips, etcetera, but no -- no other live ordnance on

25 any of the other grids.

00011

01 If they don't find anything else on those

02 others, they'll come in with their recommendation and

03 report if there are any additional areas or sites in

04 Danger Area 1 where we need to come back and award

05 another contract to do the removal on those.

06 I think that covers all the current work and

07 briefly touches on the schedule. When the Engineering

08 Evaluation Report is completed, like I said, then

09 we'll award the next contractor any removal actions

10 they need to do.

11 BY MR. THOMPSON:

12 Wayne, how's the money holding up?

13 BY MR. BOGAN:

14 I haven't had any problems so far. For example,

15 we're -- we're having to request additional monies to

16 do this construction support. We're still fairly in

17 an -- early into our fiscal year, so that there's

18 money that has been set aside for a project, and we

19 set aside somewhere around $2 million, just to place

20 over in the budget for doing additional removal work

21 on Camp Croft, so we're digging into that now.

22 I haven't heard any problems to this point on

23 getting funding on the project.

24 Any other questions?

25 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

00012

01 Wayne.

02 BY MR. BOGAN:

03 Yes.

04 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

05 Was it you sampling down at where the Cedar

06 Springs is at on Carolina Country Club Road?

07 BY MR. BOGAN:

08 Oh, yes, that's one I forgot to mention.

09 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

10 Okay, because they told me that's what was in

11 there.

12 BY MR. BOGAN:

13 All right. About two or three weeks ago --

14 probably about three weeks ago now, I had a resident

15 approach me that lives near Cedar Springs Fire saying

16 that as a kid that she remembered finding ammunition

17 that they had dug up and her father had carried some

18 stuff off and collected a lot of information.

19 Based on that, I talked to the contractor and

20 got it set up so that we would place additional grids

21 on the three sites that she showed me. There's two --

22 probably two sites with three landowners, so we had

23 the contractor go out look at those areas.

24 When they initially showed up to look at the

25 areas, there was a group from the homeowners'

00013

01 association that said -- someone from the homeowners'

02 association showed up and said they didn't want us

03 there.

04 The contractor left, called me immediately. I

05 was out of town doing some coordination. And after

06 they called, I came back and told them that, you know,

07 I checked with the landowners. "Do you still want us

08 to do the sampling?"

09 "Yes."

10 I called to check about the concerns for the

11 homeowners group. I got some information on that, but

12 I went ahead Monday and sampled. Monday and a little

13 bit yesterday -- that was Monday. A little bit today,

14 finished up all those grids, and on the properties

15 that they sampled, they didn't find any additional

16 information.

17 So what I've just been trying to do is new

18 information has been coming up, and I'm trying to

19 respond to that and get that added on to the work

20 before the contractor works in the next two or three

21 weeks.

22 I've got another resident who has called, and

23 I've got to give her a call tomorrow. She wants her

24 property checked also.

25 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

00014

01 Well, how about now, have you had anybody in the

02 old dump area, the Camp Croft dump, you know, around

03 the sewer pumping station back in there. I've seen

04 trucks. Now I don't know whose they are.

05 BY MR. BOGAN:

06 Is that down towards the current land, the

07 County landfill or ---

08 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

09 No.

10 BY MR. BOGAN:

11 Which area? I get the -- tell me which road

12 it's off of?

13 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:

14 It's between Dairy Ridge and Croft's ---

15 BY MR. POWELL:

16 Do you know where the pumping station is?

17 BY MR. BOGAN:

18 No, sir.

19 BY MR. POWELL:

20 Well, it's right next to the sewage district.

21 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

22 Well, you know where you were just talking about

23 the sampling?

24 BY MR. BOGAN:

25 Right.

00015

01 BY MR. SMITH:

02 You go down Dairy Ridge. When you go to the

03 hill, you've got to ---

04 BY MR. OSBORNE:

05 That way and you'll face that area down there

06 where you guys are speeding in and out with their

07 vehicles.

08 BY MR. BOGAN:

09 They're using the sewer line as an access,

10 because they're trying to take the gators off of and

11 not have them on the road for safety reasons. And the

12 sewer being -- the sewer area being a public property,

13 they can go down through there to get back to some of

14 the others.

15 I know that I had a gentleman show up yesterday.

16 He told me that he knew of some information where some

17 various items were found, so I went out walking

18 yesterday with a couple of contractors and walked

19 through an area to see if we found stuff that he said.

20 We didn't see anything.

21 Unless it's on one of the areas already

22 identified by the Supplemental Archive Search Report

23 or a few sites that I've had somebody come up and

24 we've added on, it should be just on those sites.

25 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

00016

01 Well, I thought it was in your plans, though, to

02 check the dump area there where they dumped all their

03 stuff at Camp Croft?

04 BY MR. BOGAN:

05 If it was on the list, the Supplemental, then

06 they've gone ahead and looked at it. Yes, sir. I

07 don't know specifically what the number is for the

08 site.

09 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

10 Okay. Another question.

11 Have you found any buried ammunition? You know,

12 people said they know where something is buried. Have

13 your people found anything?

14 BY MR. BOGAN:

15 No, sir, not of any extent.

16 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

17 Right.

18 BY MR. BOGAN:

19 I mean, a few rounds here and there.

20 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

21 Yeah, I meant these are the boxes and

22 everything.

23 BY MR. BOGAN:

24 No, sir.

25 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

00017

01 Okay. How about radioactive material?

02 BY MR. BOGAN:

03 No, sir.

04 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

05 I hear people still looking for that. They say

06 that they brought it from Oak Ridge and buried it here

07 at Camp Croft. People is trying to find it, you know.

08 BY MR. BOGAN:

09 Right.

10 BY MR. GEORGE MULLINAX:

11 And say it's here.

12 BY MR. BOGAN:

13 I had a gentleman stopped by yesterday who

14 mentioned that stuff before, and he told me where he

15 thought some of that was located, but when it comes to

16 radioactive materials: One, I don't have anything

17 other than a rumor that somebody has said, and they

18 apparently don't have any proof; and two, the

19 contractor that we've got now can only look for

20 ordnance. They won't do any hazardous waste type

21 searching.

22 So if there's a site related to chemical wastes

23 or radioactive wastes, etcetera, and somebody has some

24 indication of where it is, then I look at that and

25 follow on hazardous waste type project.

00018

01 BY MR. HAYES:

02 Is this -- is this all part of the second EE/CA

03 -- I mean, over the first EE/CA? The first EE/CA or

04 the second EE/CA?

05 BY MR. BOGAN:

06 Phase II of the first EE/CA. What it is is the

07 first EE/CA report came in and the first sampling done

08 on the EE/CA was based on the initial Archive Search

09 Report. During that, that's when we started finding

10 lots more information.

11 We found the rounds on Dr. Lowry's property and

12 then Mr. Ramantanin's property and some of the others

13 popped up with information. That's when we did a

14 Supplemental Archive Search Report, which was the map

15 with all the red polygons and yellow dots where people

16 told us things were located, so we what we call Phase

17 II of the EE/CA, Engineering Evaluation, and that's

18 the sampling that we're finishing up now.

19 BY MR. HAYES:

20 Now on the Coleman property, you said you did

21 one grid and then you did another grid?

22 BY MR. BOGAN:

23 Right.

24 BY MR. HAYES:

25 You did two grids. What size were those grids?

00019

01 BY MR. BOGAN:

02 100 foot by 100 foot. They were both adjacent

03 to each other.

04 Mr. Coleman, when he was placing the first grid,

05 came back a little bit later on and said, "Well,

06 maybe," kind of remembered that it was about 30 feet

07 more to the left of that grid, so we had to notify and

08 let the contractors -- and our contracting officer, he

09 had to contract to do that additional grid on the

10 property.

11 BY MR. MCBAIN:

12 How deep did you search on that Coleman

13 property, Wayne, do you know?

14 BY MR. BOGAN:

15 They set the magnetometers at a calibration of

16 four feet.

17 BY MR. MCBAIN:

18 Four feet?

19 BY MR. BOGAN:

20 Yes, sir.

21 BY MR. MCBAIN:

22 Okay.

23 BY MR. BOGAN:

24 And understand that the calibration is set up

25 for -- I believe they had it for a 75 millimeter

00020

01 mortar at four feet. If, however, there was a large

02 cash of, say, ammunition or something even larger,

03 then they would pick something up at a deeper depth.

04 It doesn't mean that it will only go down -- it's just

05 that it makes it easier to identify.

06 BY MR. MCBAIN:

07 Where exactly do you run your grids down there,

08 if you don't mind me asking? From the tree in the

09 corner -- the cedar tree in the corner up to the oak

10 trees, how far up through there did you go?

11 BY MR. BOGAN:

12 The first grid went to -- from the far oak tree

13 -- do you know where that one is?

14 BY MR. MCBAIN:

15 Uh-huh (affirmative response).

16 BY MR. BOGAN:

17 Back towards the middle oak tree. The second

18 grid went from the middle oak tree to the cedar tree

19 right along the fence. So it went over that whole

20 area. It's about 200 feet long.

21 BY MR. MCBAIN:

22 So you stayed pretty much parallel to the line

23 fence then where that was?

24 BY MR. BOGAN:

25 Fairly close. Yes, sir.

00021

01 Yes, sir.

02 BY MR. OSBORNE:

03 Tell them about Ellis Environmental out of

04 Florida?

05 BY MR. BOGAN:

06 Ellis is a subcontractor for Environmental

07 Science and Engineering doing surveying work for the

08 grids.

09 BY MR. OSBORNE:

10 Then why are they over there on the road going

11 down to the lake as of last week? Is that part of the

12 same thing?

13 BY MR. BOGAN:

14 Which lake?

15 BY MR. OSBORNE:

16 Lake Zimmerman or not Lake Zimmerman. Lake

17 Johnson.

18 BY MR. BOGAN:

19 Lake Johnson?

20 BY MR. OSBORNE:

21 Uh-huh (affirmative response). From Whitestone,

22 you take a right there, and you go down where you had

23 it closed up there for awhile, and they were over

24 there doing ---

25 BY MR. DAVID MULLINAX:

00022

01 He must be talking about OOU2.

02 BY MR. BOGAN:

03 Right adjacent to OOU2, we have Area A27, which

04 is one of the sites where we're supposed to ---

05 BY MR. OSBORNE:

06 Well, right on -- right on the side of the road.

07 BY MR. BOGAN:

08 Yes, sir. If you look at the map, A27 is

09 immediately adjacent to the area.

10 BY MR. OSBORNE:

11 The first time I run into them was down on Cedar

12 Springs Road when they were doing something on private

13 property down there.

14 BY MR. BOGAN:

15 And that's the whole purpose of Ellis

16 Environmental, is they're to come in and do the

17 surveying work and reports and do the sampling.

18 So we've got A27. Is that in that area? Near

19 the radio tower, it's not too far from Areas A26,