00001
01 CAMP CROFT RESTORATION ADVISORY BOARD MEETING
01 *******************************************************
02
02
03 PLACE: SC School for the Deaf and the Blind
03 Robertson Hall
04
04
05 DATE: Tuesday, April 9, 1996
05
06
06 TIME: 7:05 p.m. to 9:10 p.m.
07
07
08 PRESENTATIONS
08 GIVEN BY: Suzy McKinney
09 Zapata Engineering, P.A.
09 1100 Kenilworth Avenue, Suite 104
10 Charlotte, North Carolina 28204
10
11 Wayne Bogan
11 Project Manager
12 U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
12 Charleston District
13
13
14 BOARD MEMBERS
14 PRESENT: George Mullinax
15 Kathy Burrell
15 Gary Hayes
16 Sherry Wheeler
16 Clary H. Smith
17 William Littlejohn, Jr.
17 David Mullinax
18 Fritz Hamer
18 Gerard Perry
19 Harold D. Osborne
19 James B. Thompson
20 Norma Borkowski
20 Darwin J. Wilson
21 W. Brownlee Lowry
21
22
22
23 REPORTED BY: Sandy Satterwhite Reporting
23 P.O. Box 742
24 Roebuck, South Carolina 29376
24 (864)574-1455
00002
01 * * * * * *
02 Welcome by Ms. McKinney. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
03 Notice of Appropriation of Funds . . . . . . . . . 4
04 Report from Subcommittee on Written Justification
05 Supporting Resolution Recommendations. . . . . . 7
06 Election of Chairperson. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
07 Presentation by Mr. Bogan. . . . . . . . . . . . . 29
08 Questions and Answers. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37
09 Presentation Continued by Mr. Bogan. . . . . . . . 43
10 Questions and Answers. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 47
11 New Business . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98
12 Certificate of Reporter. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115
00003
01 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
02 Good evening and welcome. We would like to call
03 this meeting to order.
04 My name is Suzy McKinney, and I'm with Zapata
05 Engineering. Before we get started, I'd like to walk
06 through tonight's agenda.
07 The first agenda item will be to elect a
08 chairperson, and for those of you who did not receive
09 an agenda, there are some out on the front table.
10 We will elect a chairperson. We will discuss
11 the notice of the appropriation of funds that has come
12 through. We will hear the report from the
13 subcommittee on the written justification for
14 clearance to depth. Wayne will continue his
15 presentation on the Supplemental Archive Search
16 Report. We'll discuss any new business, review the
17 agenda items for the May meeting, and hopefully close
18 by 9:00 this evening.
19 All right. First of all, we would like to go
20 ahead and vote for the chairperson for the Board.
21 We'll do this by a majority vote by ballot. We've had
22 two individuals express an interest to serve as the
23 chairperson, Mr. Osborne and David Mullinax.
24 Mr. Osborne.
25 BY MR. OSBORNE:
00004
01 No, I'm just ---
02 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
03 Oh, you're acknowledging yourself.
04 In addition to these two individuals, are there
05 any other nominations from the Board for chairperson?
06 (NO RESPONSE)
07 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
08 Okay. If there are no other nominations, if you
09 would like to complete your ballot, and Melanie has an
10 envelope that she will collect them in, and then we'll
11 get a tally of those in a few minutes.
12 (MELANIE PASSING OUT BALLOTS)
13 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
14 While we're waiting for Melanie to tally up the
15 votes, we'll go ahead and briefly discuss the news
16 article in the 19 -- in the March 30th edition of the
17 Spartanburg Herald Journal.
18 In that article it was announced that $7.5
19 Million has been approved for the cleanup of the
20 former Camp Croft, and I believe this was a fairly
21 direct result of all the efforts of the Board members
22 in preparing that resolution and sending it forward
23 and individual's efforts in contacting their
24 delegates, and I think you all need to be commended on
25 those efforts for the appropriation of funds.
00005
01 Wayne is going to talk a little bit more about
02 what that means and the ongoing activities to get us
03 started with that. Wayne.
04 BY MR. BOGAN:
05 One thing I wanted to mention primarily about
06 the appropriation of funds is that it's not actually
07 Congress coming aside or the Assistant Secretary of
08 the Army or anyone else and saying, "Here's an
09 additional $7.5 Million for your work at Camp Croft."
10 What was done is in the action memorandum that
11 we sent forward was signed. It was signed by the
12 Assistant Secretary of the Army and by the
13 headquarters of our Corps of Engineers. What that did
14 was it authorized and approved a project for funds up
15 to $7.5 Million.
16 Now what they'll essentially do is turn around
17 and say, "Hey, Corps of Engineers, you have a pot of
18 money that we've given you for this year. You've got
19 a pot of money we're going to give you for next year.
20 You need to pull that $7.5 Million out of that pot of
21 funds we're going to give you."
22 In talking with Huntsville they've assured us
23 that they're going to give us all the money that we
24 need to work on this project, but, as I mentioned in
25 one of the previous meetings, if for some reason a
00006
01 project comes up where there, say, is a chemical
02 incident on a state park in another state, the money
03 can be pulled from this project and placed on that
04 project first.
05 I think we all agreed that that would be of a
06 higher importance if there is a chemical there that
07 threatens the general public in a state park or
08 downtown in certain areas. We do have some sites
09 across the nation that are in the middle of downtown
10 areas.
11 So -- but it has been approved and set aside or
12 authorized us to use $7.5 Million on four of the
13 areas. Those areas are OOU7, which is the recreation
14 area, campgrounds, horse ring, fitness trail; OOU1B,
15 which is just north of Twin Oaks picnic shelter; OOU2,
16 which is off of Henningston Road; OOU3, which is a
17 subdivision off of Wedgewood; and some money is set
18 for us to use on A-39, which is the aerial photography
19 information that we got from the Supplemental Archive
20 Search Report overlooking and doing information on the
21 horse trails.
22 Even if they gave us $7.5 Million right now, the
23 way the money is set up that we use within the Corps
24 of Engineers, that would mean that we would have to
25 spend all $7.5 Million before September 30th, the end
00007
01 of our fiscal year.
02 Even if we had -- we're looking to have three
03 crews doing work, and I'll explain that later on, they
04 wouldn't be able to spend all $7.5 Million in that
05 time frame, so it will be -- we'll spend some of the
06 money through September 30th, which is our fiscal year
07 for '96, and then we'll start using the rest of the
08 money for the fiscal year '97, and I'll get into a
09 little bit later on the general time frames and what
10 we think it's going to take for us to do the cleanup
11 of these different areas.
12 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
13 In our last meeting we had a subcommittee formed
14 to prepare a written justification on why certain
15 parts of the park the Board would recommend that those
16 areas be cleared to depth, and we would like to hear
17 the report from the subcommittee at this time.
18 BY DR. LOWRY:
19 As I understand it, we were asked to justify the
20 recommendation -- please don't (referring to
21 photographer) -- justify for recommendations of going
22 to depth versus the recommendation of the Corps.
23 There were four members of this subcommittee:
24 Myself, Harold Osborne, Gerard Perry and Sanford
25 Smith. OOU7 is the area of the Park in which the
00008
01 playgrounds -- basically where everybody goes, the
02 horse stables, etcetera.
03 The Corps has recommended clearance to two feet.
04 What we did, basically, was to recommend that
05 clearance be obtained to two feet, and that if they
06 have an anomaly, a magnetometer signature existed
07 below two feet, that it be dug to four feet.
08 The justification for this recommendation comes
09 from a brochure sent to us or a paper sent to us by
10 the Department of Defense, Explosive Safety folder,
11 which says, "That for public access, which includes
12 farming, agriculture, surface recreation, vehicular
13 parking or surface supply storage, that the
14 recommended depth of in use for this is four feet,"
15 and so our recommendation is two feet. If you find
16 something, go to four after you've gone to two, and
17 the justification is the Department of Defense's own
18 recommendations.
19 The recommendations for OOU1B, which included
20 horse trails and hiking trails and so forth, we
21 recommended that a clearance of two feet, as the Corps
22 recommends, be done on the horse trails themselves and
23 ten feet on either side. If they get a magnetometer
24 signature, and it is sufficient to go four feet, we
25 recommend that they go to four feet. The same
00009
01 justification is used. "Public access, farming,
02 agriculture, surface recreation," etcetera.
03 We further recommended that signs be posted on
04 the edge of these trails where they have been cleared
05 stating that they're basically off limits, No Public
06 Access, and that the rest of it be surface cleared.
07 We further recommended that if any of it be used
08 -- is to be used for public access, that it be cleared
09 to four feet before that happens.
10 OOU2, Henningston Road area, surface -- surface
11 clearance only with signs placing it off limits for
12 public access.
13 Basically what we want to do is to take it off
14 of the surface and take it totally out of the Park's
15 perimeter and make it inaccessible to the public. We
16 didn't recommend fencing it.
17 Originally, I think a Quit Claim Deed does
18 recommend fencing it, but we just simply said it's in
19 a remote area. There's no need to spend this money if
20 it needs to be spent elsewhere, but surely nobody
21 needs to go in it, so we would accept surface
22 clearance if the Park agrees to take it totally out of
23 service, and those are the four areas that we
24 recommended doing something on, which I think are the
25 only four you asked us for.
00010
01 BY MR. THOMPSON:
02 Was the subcommittee unanimous on this?
03 BY DR. LOWRY:
04 I thought so.
05 BY MR. THOMPSON:
06 Just wanted to know.
07 BY DR. LOWRY:
08 Well, I'm here. Gerard is here and Harold is
09 here.
10 BY MR. THOMPSON:
11 Sanford is the only one missing.
12 BY DR. LOWRY:
13 Sanford has gone to -- out west. I figured if
14 he can afford to do that, he doesn't matter. You've
15 got a copy of this. Is there a problem with any of
16 this?
17 BY MR. BOGAN:
18 Not that I see from our ---
19 BY DR. LOWRY:
20 Is there a representative here from the State
21 Parks?
22 BY MR. FOLEY:
23 (Acknowledges by raising hand).
24 BY DR. LOWRY:
25 Now I talked -- who are you, sir?
00011
01 BY MR. FOLEY:
02 I'm Mike Foley. I spoke with you.
03 BY DR. LOWRY:
04 No, I talked to Buddy Jennings, but I talked to
05 you about ---
06 BY MR. FOLEY:
07 I talked to you a few months ago.
08 BY DR. LOWRY:
09 --- six months ago. Do you all have a problem
10 with this?
11 BY MR. FOLEY:
12 Well, we're going to -- we'll follow the lead of
13 the recommendations of this Board, and I would like to
14 have the Corps' reactions. You know, I certainly I
15 have no idea of what the difference in that
16 recommendation in OOU7 would mean as far as costs.
17 You know, that's a question that I can't answer.
18 I don't know what it would do. Would it diminish the
19 efforts in other areas? You know, those are technical
20 questions.
21 BY DR. LOWRY:
22 Yeah, and that's -- that's what we studied, and
23 we felt like four feet was the -- was the minimum that
24 the Department of Defense recommended, except for
25 cattle grazing, which was 12 inches; but if you're
00012
01 going to have children playing in a playground and
02 people camping, it needs to be to depth, which is the
03 standard of four feet.
04 Now if they're going to be digging and you all
05 are not going to post signs saying there is No Dig,
06 then the recommendation is ten feet, so I really think
07 that, you know, we all need to get together and decide
08 what we're going to do.
09 But if they're going to be digging, there's
10 going to be sub-surface recreation, the recommendation
11 is ten feet, which is far more expensive, and so
12 that's why I'm asking you now, in public, what is the
13 willingness of the Park to cooperate with these, and I
14 would ask that you all do so, otherwise we'll have to
15 make other recommendations and we will.
16 BY MR. FOLEY:
17 Well, this is certainly -- it's certainly a
18 technical question, and I think the Corps is going to
19 have to react.
20 BY DR. LOWRY:
21 Well, I've been studying this for three years,
22 and I'm not an expert, but I can read a piece of paper
23 that has recommendations on it.
24 BY MR. FOLEY:
25 Okay. But it's certainly is a question of
00013
01 budget. It's a question of time. It's a question
02 of ---
03 BY DR. LOWRY:
04 It's a question of human safety, as far as I'm
05 concerned, Mr. Foley, and nothing else.
06 BY MR. THOMPSON:
07 How long will that area have to be shut off?
08 BY MR. BOGAN:
09 Maybe we'll address a couple of points, and then
10 I'll try to answer yours.
11 The only thing that's really changed between
12 this and the recommendation that we made in the EE/CA,
13 all right, is that, let's see, in Area 1B, where
14 you're talking about going down to four foot on the
15 anomalies if they find it below two foot, and the
16 fencing is off limits, and I've got some of the
17 posting signs. There's already a cost line item in
18 the cost estimate for Area 1B and for Area 2, also,
19 talking about signage and public awareness for these
20 areas. That's already built into the cost estimate.
21 In Area -- let me address Area 7 first. Going
22 down to two foot and the four foot, that's covered in
23 the scope of work for Area 7. The policy from the
24 Department of Defense does say that in recreation
25 areas you go down to four foot. That also says in the
00014
01 policy that that's a generic standard if you don't
02 know anything else about the site. You go down four
03 foot, and construction ten foot and whatever.
04 Based on our sampling and what we know of the
05 ordnance found in the area, the EE/CA suggested two
06 foot. However, in the scope of work we wrote two
07 feet, and if we find anything deeper, we will go down
08 to the four foot, and so I think that's not going to
09 be anything different than what we have here.
10 BY DR. LOWRY:
11 The reason we recommended this so strongly is
12 because there's been a bunch of dirt moved in that
13 area, and you have no idea what to expect really until
14 after you push it up with a bulldozer; so that's why
15 we figured it was going to be 90 percent of the Park's
16 visitors in one place, and the place to put the money
17 is where most of the people are; and that's what we've
18 done is basically put most of the money, we figured,
19 where the people are, and where the people are not,
20 put it off limits.
21 BY MR. BOGAN:
22 We've already got it written in, so if they find
23 -- if they dig down to two feet and there is still an
24 anomaly, and there's a reason to believe there's
25 something other than just barbwire or a tin can there,
00015
01 then they will go down to four foot.
02 I'll -- what I'll end up doing is presenting
03 this to the ordnance experts in Huntsville to get --
04 to see if we can change anything in EE/CA and our
05 recommendations for the cleanup of the area and see if
06 I can get that in writing, and I'll try to get that
07 back before the next RAB meeting, because hopefully
08 right after the next RAB meeting we're going to have a
09 little more action taking place and we'll have the
10 people turn around on this.
11 In Area 1B, going down to the two foot, we've
12 already got in certain work going down four foot, and
13 if an anomaly exists, then they'll have to respond in
14 writing back on that one.
15 And the same with Area 2, going down to -- well,
16 you didn't change anything other than making sure that
17 it's posted as not being used for development.
18 What I have to do on posting the signs is make
19 sure we'll check with our legal office, because we can
20 recommend to the landowners, in this case the State
21 Park, for example, Area OOU3, recommend that -- we can
22 recommend that they put the signs, and we'll say,
23 "This is what we would like to put up," but then we'll
24 have to coordinate with them because we can't tell
25 them, "You have to do this."
00016
01 BY DR. LOWRY:
02 Well, the deed says that they have to fence it,
03 so, you know, we ---
04 BY MR. BOGAN:
05 In Area 2, yes. In Area 1B, it doesn't say
06 that, so I don't see a bit of a problem with it. I'll
07 present it to Huntsville.
08 I'll get something in writing and respond back
09 and let you know if there is any -- if they agree or
10 disagree with the one or two minor changes you got in
11 here.
12 You had another question related to, I think, or
13 something other than this?
14 BY MR. THOMPSON:
15 I think you probably answered it. On OOU7,
16 tha's approximately how many acres?
17 BY MR. BOGAN:
18 I would say it's around 100 acres. It just
19 depends. With the ordnance, we start where we know it
20 is, and then go out and start finding ---
21 BY MR. THOMPSON:
22 That's the same one we looked at that Saturday
23 morning, right, Ranger?
24 BY MR. BOGAN:
25 Right.
00017
01 BY MR. PERRY:
02 Yes.
03 BY MR. THOMPSON:
04 All right. Now that's not being used at all now
05 by the State Parks?
06 BY MR. BOGAN:
07 The hilltop is not. The campgrounds and the
08 horse rings are still being used.
09 BY MR. THOMPSON:
10 The hilltop is what we saw, isn't it?
11 BY MR. PERRY:
12 We didn't see the hilltop.
13 BY MR. BOGAN:
14 No, we didn't even go up the hilltop. We walked
15 along the side of the road.
16 (OFF THE RECORD DISCUSSION)
17 BY MR. THOMPSON:
18 We're just discussing what is Area 7 now. See I
19 was assuming that Area 7 was to the left of the road
20 only, but it's on both sides of the road.
21 BY DR. LOWRY:
22 It's the campground, playground and all that.
23 BY MR. BOGAN:
24 Area -- Area 7 includes all that, and the way
25 the contractors work is that as long as we've got the
00018
01 money and we keeping them working, if they find
02 something and we keep finding it, then we'll go out;
03 and then with this being our first priority -- with
04 this being our first priority and what you've already
05 told us before -- if we come in and find out that if
06 for some unknown reason it covers 300 acres, then we
07 may have to adjust our priorities and spend all of our
08 money there and then worry about the 1B and Area 2 and
09 Area 3. However, I don't expect that to happen.
10 I think we've got a good idea of where it's
11 going to be located and our estimates have been fairly
12 competent in what we believe is there, but it does
13 include more than just the hilltop.
14 Any other questions?
15 BY MR. OSBORNE:
16 At that point what does the Park say?
17 BY MR. FOLEY:
18 Concerning what? What question?
19 BY MR. OSBORNE:
20 What he just said.
21 BY MR. FOLEY:
22 Well, he described an area is what he just said.
23 BY MR. OSBORNE:
24 No, the area is all the horse trails, the picnic
25 area, the playground, the automobile parking area, the
00019
01 camping, and he -- this is the point that he says if
02 we have to close it, we need to close it.
03 BY MR. BOGAN:
04 I ---
05 BY MR. FOLEY:
06 I didn't hear that.
07 BY MR. BOGAN:
08 We didn't get into the closing. A little bit
09 later on we'll get into the options of where I've
10 actually gotten with the State Park and we've talked
11 about closures and how we're going to coordinate
12 working in each of the different areas of the State
13 Park.
14 BY DR. LOWRY:
15 Are we going to allow areas opened that we know
16 that there's not admission for the public until it
17 gets cleaned up or before it gets cleaned up?
18 BY MR. BOGAN:
19 What areas are you talking about specifically?
20 Talking about Area 7?
21 BY DR. LOWRY:
22 Area 7 where the playground is.
23 BY MR. BOGAN:
24 Take, for instance, Area 7 -- I was going to try
25 and wait -- I'll go ahead and address it now.
00020
01 BY DR. LOWRY:
02 If you want to wait, that's fine.
03 BY MR. BOGAN:
04 Yeah, I'd -- I'd like to wait until after I give
05 my discussion on the other areas, and then go into
06 priorities and how we're looking at doing the work in
07 each of the different areas.
08 Yes, sir.
09 BY MR. HAYES:
10 I've got a question about how close to the roads
11 or do they clear up under a gravel road or not a paved
12 road or what's -- what's done for that?
13 BY DR. LOWRY:
14 I can tell you from my property that they did
15 not clear under a road.
16 BY MR. HAYES:
17 Yes, but ---
18 BY DR. LOWRY:
19 Even if it's gravel, simply because they cannot
20 dig through it.
21 BY MR. BOGAN:
22 I don't remember, again, specifically reading a
23 written scope of work as to whether or not they would
24 go underneath a road. In talking with Huntsville,
25 majority of time the road is there, if they tear up
00021
01 the road, you've got to come in and have future
02 construction plans, which means you have to come back
03 to a certain area and do additional work then, so the
04 roads and parking lots, we wouldn't go in and tearing
05 them up or go up underneath.
06 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:
07 Mr. Bogan ---
08 BY MR. BOGAN:
09 Is there ---
10 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:
11 I'm sorry. I think what we're looking for is
12 perhaps that the PRT will certainly fully cooperate
13 with whatever the recommendations are of the Corps of
14 Engineers with regard to certain areas of the Park,
15 and I think that may be kind of what we're looking
16 for.
17 We're not -- I don't think we're saying this is
18 got to close and that's got to close. I think we're
19 looking for that -- because you will certainly make
20 your decision based on what the Corps of Engineers ---
21 BY MR. FOLEY:
22 We have followed the lead of the Corps in
23 everything. We haven't made any decision without
24 sometimes -- and Wayne and I have had conversations
25 where Wayne said -- Wayne would say, "Well, let me --
00022
01 let me get a full answer and talk to the people in the
02 field," and he has conferred and come back with an
03 answer that he felt very comfortable with and with
04 very technical questions.
05 The horse trails that we have closed now were
06 based on advise from the Corps. We certainly are not
07 competent to make -- to make decisions based on our
08 own expertise. We have to rely on the Corps and their
09 competence, and Wayne has been very good at getting
10 the information that we requested in order to make
11 those decisions.
12 We will certainly continue to do that, and we're
13 here tonight to listen what this Board recommends to
14 the Corps, and certainly the Corps has got to make a
15 decision based on the contracting and the clearing and
16 the technical questions, and then we will follow their
17 lead in how we open areas, closed areas and what kind
18 of schedules we go on. We have to depend upon their
19 expertise.
20 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:
21 I think that's the type of input that we wanted.
22 BY MR. BOGAN:
23 Dr. Lowry.
24 BY DR. LOWRY:
25 Do we, as a Board, have any influence as to
00023
01 where you spend most of the money first?
02 BY MR. BOGAN:
03 I guess I would have to ask you do you disagree
04 with our cost estimates and our priorities?
05 BY DR. LOWRY:
06 I will wait for you to present that.
07 BY MR. BOGAN:
08 The priorities, the way we had them set up
09 before in the cost estimates, I'll give you copies of
10 the cost estimates from the EE/CA so you'll know how
11 much it's going to cost for each of the different
12 areas. I've got it here, if we need to go back over
13 those.
14 We look at the priorities, and I believe you
15 essentially agreed with me when you sent your letters
16 to the congressional representatives in saying that we
17 wanted to go to Area 7 first, then 1B and then to Area
18 A-39, Area 2, Area OOU3.
19 The way we're going to go now is we're going to
20 go to Area 7 first. We said that, you all agreed with
21 us. The Park had no problem with us going on and
22 doing that, and I met with them yesterday down in Area
23 7 to discuss some of the work and how it's going to
24 progress.
25 BY DR. LOWRY:
00024
01 How many people use the horse trails every year?
02 What is the total population that ride across those
03 trails every year?
04 BY MR. PERRY:
05 I can't give you an exact amount on that. I'd
06 have to go back to the office and get the records.
07 BY DR. LOWRY:
08 About 5,000?
09 BY MR. PERRY:
10 It's about 2,000 to 4,000, I guess. That's a
11 rough estimate.
12 BY DR. LOWRY:
13 Okay. From 2,000 to 4,000. So if they were
14 closed until this work got done, you really wouldn't
15 be hampering a whole lot of people?
16 BY MR. PERRY:
17 No, we didn't -- you know, we closed last year.
18 We closed the trails, most of the trails.
19 BY DR. LOWRY:
20 2,000 to 4,000. You do have those records?
21 BY MR. PERRY:
22 Uh-huh (affirmative response).
23 BY MR. BOGAN:
24 Another example, in addition to what Mike
25 mentioned earlier, is that the area that's closed off
00025
01 now, the fitness trail in Area 7, we walked in after
02 the Time Critical Removal Action, and I wasn't the
03 project manager at the time but I would be on the site
04 visit. Essentially Bill Davis from Huntsville made a
05 recommendation to the State Park at that time that we
06 may want to close off the hilltop, even though we had
07 already cleared the fitness trail. Right then and
08 there, they said, "Okay. How do you want to do it?"
09 That afternoon we had signs -- or was it the
10 next week we had signs put up, reproduced and those
11 are the ones that you saw on the trees out there that
12 we put up, and we haven't had any problems with them
13 coming in and doing what we've requested them to do at
14 this point.
15 I know there was some controversy about the Park
16 wanting to leave Area 7 opened primarily in the summer
17 because of the high use, but in meetings with them, as
18 I mentioned before, they told us they'll work with us
19 in any way that they can. Area 7, when we go to work
20 in it, it's going to have to be closed parts of the
21 time just because of the safety distances.
22 BY DR. LOWRY:
23 What is the safety distance for the 60
24 millimeter and 81 millimeter mortars?
25 BY MR. BOGAN:
00026
01 Which is standard for the crew and the explosive
02 operations they're going to be doing is 2,000. It
03 doesn't matter what type of ordnance, whether it's a
04 hand grenade or ---
05 BY DR. LOWRY:
06 Same for 105?
07 BY MR. BOGAN:
08 It's the same for all of them. So if we've got
09 to ---
10 BY DR. LOWRY:
11 In all directions?
12 BY MR. BOGAN:
13 Excuse me?
14 BY DR. LOWRY:
15 In a radius of 2,000 feet, approximately?
16 BY MR. BOGAN:
17 Right.
18 BY DR. LOWRY:
19 So 4,000 feet, total, right?
20 BY MR. BOGAN:
21 Right, 2,000 feet in either -- in either
22 direction.
23 BY DR. LOWRY:
24 All right.
25 BY MR. BOGAN:
00027
01 That's -- that's to ensure the safety of the
02 crews and anyone near the crews at work; and when they
03 do blow up a piece of ordnance, there's usually only
04 two ordnance technicians that are there and the rest
05 of the crew leaves the area before they blow up the
06 ordnance.
07 Any further questions on this recommendation the
08 subcommittee has made?
09 BY DR. LOWRY:
10 Do any of you on the Board have any suggestions
11 of us that were on the subcommittee?
12 BY MR. HAMER:
13 I guess my -- my only comment is based on the
14 financial restraints that we're looking at, I think
15 that's the best that we can do. I -- you know, if I
16 were in a perfect world, I would want more.
17 BY DR. LOWRY:
18 So would I.
19 BY MR. HAMER:
20 And four foot is, I guess, the minimum that I
21 can accept.
22 BY DR. LOWRY:
23 So then should I ask for this Board to accept
24 this subcommittee's recommendations?
25 BY MR. BOGAN:
00028
01 I believe that would be up to the Board to vote
02 on the recommendation, to have a motion to vote on the
03 recommendation for the Board to accept it so I can
04 take it to Huntsville.
05 BY DR. LOWRY:
06 Can I make that recommendation?
07 BY MR. BOGAN:
08 Uh-huh (affirmative response).
09 BY DR. LOWRY:
10 I'd like to recommend that you all accept our
11 work.
12 BY MR. LITTLEJOHN:
13 I'll make the motion.
14 BY MR. THOMPSON:
15 Second.
16 BY MR. BOGAN:
17 So the motion is that the recommendation for the
18 subcommittee be accepted as written. We have a
19 second?
20 BY MR. THOMPSON:
21 I seconded it to get it started, the discussion
22 started.
23 BY MR. BOGAN:
24 Any further discussion? We've already killed
25 that. All those in favor say, "I."
00029
01 (SEVERAL RESPOND)
02 BY MR. BOGAN:
03 All opposed, "Nay."
04 (NO RESPONSE)
05 BY MR. BOGAN:
06 Motion carries. I guess the next thing is my
07 presentation.
08 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
09 Sure. Are we going to announce the Chair?
10 BY MR. BOGAN:
11 Oh, please do.
12 BY MS. MCKINNEY:
13 All right. We have the votes in, and the Chair
14 for the upcoming year for the Restoration Advisory
15 Board is David Mullinax.
16 So, we can get together either after the meeting
17 or between now and the next meeting to set an agenda
18 and the questions you've got and we'll work through
19 those.
20 BY MR. BOGAN:
21 David, congratulations. All right.
22 I've changed my presentation slightly, probably
23 a little more than slightly from the last meeting.
24 The last meeting I gave you some slide presentations,
25 a bunch of slide overheads of the different areas. I
00030
01 went through each one because they were high
02 priorities.
03 What I want to address primarily tonight is the
04 medium priority sites. All that I have done at this
05 point is gone through each of the medium priority
06 sites and the information that I've already given you
07 and just discuss briefly what was found at each one of
08 those sites and why we want to go forward.
09 Low priority sites I'm really not going to get
10 into tonight because there was a large number of them.
11 I mean, I'll read you the definition for low priority
12 in a minute, and you'll probably won't want me to go
13 through each one of those sites.
14 I'm going to be working off the handout that I
15 gave you last time that shows the chart of high,
16 medium, low and no further reconnaissance
17 recommendations. If you don't have those, I have
18 extra copies in my briefcase that I can give to you if
19 anybody in the audience wants a copy. Let me grab
20 those real quick.
21 All right. Yes, sir.
22 (NO RESPONSE)
23 BY MR. BOGAN:
24 All right. If you have any questions, or if you
25 have any questions as we're going along, please ask.
00031
01 Since I'm not placing anything on the overhead
02 projector, I'm not showing you the map in any detail,
03 I think that will help.
04 First, I want to go over the definition of what
05 a medium priority site is. A medium priority site is
06 a site that could not be completely investigated when
07 we did our supplemental site visits, because it was
08 either too large of an area or we didn't have a right
09 of entry to that area at the time. Okay. An area
10 that we think that there's a potential that there is
11 ordnance on that site.
12 Two, that there was either scattered or deep
13 magnetometer anomalies and that some population usage
14 exists in the area. We can have a site where we
15 didn't have right of entry at all, but we think either
16 someone with the forestry service or someone else in
17 an interview told us there might be ordnance there,
18 since we couldn't get access to the site, we
19 recommended that we do further study on it, instead of
20 just saying, "Okay. We didn't get right of entry,
21 just let it alone." We recommended that we do further
22 work on it later on.
23 The first site you see there is Site Number 2,
24 which is the south end, and I won't point out every
25 one of these because there's so many of them on here.
00032
01 The only thing that was found there was they found a
02 few magnetometer anomalies. They don't know what they
03 were. There's a potential that there is ordnance
04 there. It could also be a tin can, but better safe
05 than sorry. We're going to come back.
06 Number 9, we found sub-surface anomalies and
07 they found potential grenade fragments, and that's up
08 toward the subdivision and an area that we've already
09 identified as potential